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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:07 am
by RoyGBiv
healthinsp wrote:Sorry yall FNG here and I don't know all the lingo.

What's MWG call and MAIG.

Thanks
MWG=Man With a Gun
MAIG=Mayors Against Illegal Guns http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:58 am
by VMI77
Taurus.40 wrote:Just a tid bit from my experience, they will not take no for an answer. I'm nice at the first request but I get real aggregated the second time I'm asked. It used to be that someone would ask once. Now they will ask and when you say no they get mad. It's like they think they are owed the hand out. I told a guy no a few months back and he got mad and told me that he guesses there are no Christians in my town.
My son exited a restaurant in Chicago and a panhandler approached him and said she was hungry. He told her he'd take her into the restaurant and buy her a meal. She said she didn't like that kind of food and wanted Chinese food. The result: she got nothing. They do think they're owed a handout....that's precisely what the government and the "entitlement" system have taught them.

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:18 pm
by texanjoker
Look at this another way. Depending on what the person said, you could have been charged with a lot more then intentionally failing to conceal as I read in the thread. Imagine if this guy or a witness called 911. He would say he was walking in the parking lot and you assaulted him and threatened him with a gun. By your own words he didn't say anything or make any threatening movements. By exposing your gun and putting your hand on it you displayed the weapon. If it was believed that you displayed it during an assault, you could have been in some hot water. Assault can simply be threatening somebody with bodily harm. If it was done by displaying a gun, you are now up to aggravated assault. Did you have justification to do what you did? That could be questionable and fortunately he never called the police so you didn't have to find out. If leo's came, you would have probably been taken down as a MWAG. They would take statements, look at video (if there was any) and then determine if they had PC (probable cause) for the arrest. While a jury may or may not clear you, that would be an expensive adventure. Glad it worked out.

§ 22.02. AGGRAVATED ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an
offense if the person commits assault as defined in § 22.01 and
the person:
(1) causes serious bodily injury to another, including
the person's spouse; or
(2) uses or exhibits a deadly weapon during the
commission of the assault.

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse;
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/22.02.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:35 pm
by SewTexas
texanjoker wrote:Look at this another way. Depending on what the person said, you could have been charged with a lot more then intentionally failing to conceal as I read in the thread. Imagine if this guy or a witness called 911. He would say he was walking in the parking lot and you assaulted him and threatened him with a gun. By your own words he didn't say anything or make any threatening movements. By exposing your gun and putting your hand on it you displayed the weapon. If it was believed that you displayed it during an assault, you could have been in some hot water. Assault can simply be threatening somebody with bodily harm. If it was done by displaying a gun, you are now up to aggravated assault. Did you have justification to do what you did? That could be questionable and fortunately he never called the police so you didn't have to find out. If leo's came, you would have probably been taken down as a MWAG. They would take statements, look at video (if there was any) and then determine if they had PC (probable cause) for the arrest. While a jury may or may not clear you, that would be an expensive adventure. Glad it worked out.

§ 22.02. AGGRAVATED ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an
offense if the person commits assault as defined in § 22.01 and
the person:
(1) causes serious bodily injury to another, including
the person's spouse; or
(2) uses or exhibits a deadly weapon during the
commission of the assault.

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse;
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/22.02.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TJ,

He said he didn't show his gun at all, possibly his holster, if that. Like we said earlier, he could have had his hand on his phone.

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:04 pm
by texanjoker
SewTexas wrote:
texanjoker wrote:Look at this another way. Depending on what the person said, you could have been charged with a lot more then intentionally failing to conceal as I read in the thread. Imagine if this guy or a witness called 911. He would say he was walking in the parking lot and you assaulted him and threatened him with a gun. By your own words he didn't say anything or make any threatening movements. By exposing your gun and putting your hand on it you displayed the weapon. If it was believed that you displayed it during an assault, you could have been in some hot water. Assault can simply be threatening somebody with bodily harm. If it was done by displaying a gun, you are now up to aggravated assault. Did you have justification to do what you did? That could be questionable and fortunately he never called the police so you didn't have to find out. If leo's came, you would have probably been taken down as a MWAG. They would take statements, look at video (if there was any) and then determine if they had PC (probable cause) for the arrest. While a jury may or may not clear you, that would be an expensive adventure. Glad it worked out.

§ 22.02. AGGRAVATED ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an
offense if the person commits assault as defined in § 22.01 and
the person:
(1) causes serious bodily injury to another, including
the person's spouse; or
(2) uses or exhibits a deadly weapon during the
commission of the assault.

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse;
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/22.02.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TJ,

He said he didn't show his gun at all, possibly his holster, if that. Like we said earlier, he could have had his hand on his phone.
I went by his statement. He said he raised his shirt and placed his hand on the gun. That is not a cell phone and the guy probably saw it based on his change . I'm sure his statement would also say it was a gun had he called 911. He may have called and we don't know due to the poster leaving.

((he ended up behind my car when I turned in front of the car going towards the door he started walking towards me. I raised my shirt and placed my hand on my gun and told him not to come near me, he froze in his tracks))

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:15 pm
by Dragonfighter
VMI77 wrote: My son exited a restaurant in Chicago and a panhandler approached him and said she was hungry. He told her he'd take her into the restaurant and buy her a meal. She said she didn't like that kind of food and wanted Chinese food. The result: she got nothing. They do think they're owed a handout....that's precisely what the government and the "entitlement" system have taught them.
OT, but if someone says they're hungry, I'll offer to feed them. If they gratefully accept then they are likely to get a small amount of cash as well. I'm not trying to boast or say anything other than feeding a hungry person is what my boss told me to do and it can be fulfilling.

OTOH, if they don't, or they get nasty they get nothing, same goes for a "will work for food" ploy. I desperately needed help with a yard project, stopped near a "able bodied" type and offered a $100 plus meals to help me for a few hours. He said, "I can make more staying here," and he got nothing.

Finally to the OP. I'm not the ninja fast youngster I used to be. If you approach me in a parking lot you best be announcing your intentions from a long ways off. Otherwise it won't be pleasant. I think you did fine, you came away with no one hurt, Gander Mountain knows and you'll live to shop another day. The one criticism is a common one as almost everyone forgets the step when faced with this; call 911 early or have your partner/SO do so while you are occupied. Let your story be the first one on record. Not only does it get your story on record, it bolsters your "I feel threatened" position.

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:28 pm
by cb1000rider
SewTexas wrote: He said he didn't show his gun at all, possibly his holster, if that. Like we said earlier, he could have had his hand on his phone.
I'd take what Joker said seriously. If I thought you had a gun and was irritated, it'd just take a little call to the PD indicating that you threatened me with a gun. Who is the burden of proof on now?
Yes, anyone can lie about anything, but in this case the circumstances would be strongly supportive of a story like that. How would the caller know that the OP had a gun unless the caller saw it?

If you're threatened enough to put your hand on it. You should call. If for no other reason than to cover your own tail. It may have an added benefit of preventing an issue for someone else.

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:59 pm
by SherwoodForest
When my wife & I are returning to our vehicle in the parking lot after a shopping spree - especially around this time of year - I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if someone eyeing us was also put on notice that I am armed. Just saying..............

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:17 am
by HoosierTexan
If you felt like you were justified by showing your gun and preparing your draw, then you're fine.

If you felt like you were trying to prove a point and scare someone, then you were being a jerk.

I think you said you were about 20 feet away which can be covered in just a couple seconds by a semi athletic person, and if I was severely threatened I may have even drawn the gun out of the holster and showed the perp the barrel. It all depends on the situation and your ability to assess your threat.

If you feel you did the right thing, then don't sweat it. However, as it comes to the law, they could have easily called the cops on you and least awarded you a trip downtown to answer some questions.

Keep Calm, Carry on. HAHA

I hate that stupid phrase (chive on) but it seemed to fit there...

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:54 am
by CHLLady
What does "chive on" mean??

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:34 am
by Abraham
HoosierTexan,

C'mon, admit it, you made up "chive on" just to see the - Huh?

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:06 pm
by HoosierTexan
Abraham wrote:HoosierTexan,

C'mon, admit it, you made up "chive on" just to see the - Huh?
Hah, you got me.

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:31 pm
by sunny beach
Image

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:55 pm
by LSUTiger
IANAL but AFAIK, if you feel that it is necessary for you to make the presence of a weapon known to avoid bodily injury (where the use of force, not just deadly force is justified) it's not brandishing (if done correctly) and is perfectly legal to do so. See below, I am sure there is more to it than what can cite at the moment.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetfo ... chl-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

A few caveats:

1. If they don't have a weapon visible, keep the gun pointed down/away from the other person. Don't wave or point the gun at the person or do anything that could be considered brandishing. Don't make any threats. Just let the bad guy know that if he threatens you anymore you will be forced to defend your self.
2. As soon as the event is over, call 911 immediately. You want to have your version of events in before the other guys. Police tend believe whoever calls first. Try to remember every little minute detail and timeline of events.
3. Make sure you can articulate exactly what was it about the other person's actions that made you believe you were in danger.

Proceed with caution. IANAL. YMMV.

Also,...

Alway have a firearm at arm's reach. In the trunk of your car is a bad place for it if you need it. If you have to disarm, don't get lazy and rearm as soon as possible.

Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:18 am
by Gunner4640
Thanks everyone for all the comments and opinions. No matter what at my age and health condition I am not going to let someone come near me in a parking lot that was stalking me from the door to my car. I did not draw the gun only had my hand on it and the gun was not exposed (my shirt was long and I am pretty sure it covered my hand) but as said you could tell my hand was on something under my shirt. In this day and time and especially in this city I am not going to take any chances with my wife's life or mine. I must admit it was interesting reading of all the different opinions stated in this post. Thanks again. :txflag: