SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

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J.R.@A&M
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#46

Post by J.R.@A&M » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:48 pm

This just out...

OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT ––––––––––––––––
MICHAEL K. YOUNG
PRESIDENT
April 13, 2016

To the Texas A&M University community:

As you know, the 84th Texas Legislature passed Senate Bill 11, which is effective August 1, 2016, and expands the areas on public university campuses where those with appropriate licenses are authorized to carry concealed handguns. As President of Texas A&M, I am deeply committed to creating the optimal environment for learning, discovery and work. At the same time, as a state institution, we are subject to the demands of the law and will necessarily comply.

After considerable efforts to engage the broad university community and gather feedback regarding the unique culture at Texas A&M, and with concern for safety and security guiding their decisions, members of the Campus Carry Policy Task Force comprising students, faculty and staff have made 14 recommendations, all of which I am pleased to fully endorse and almost all of which I have adopted intact and submitted to The Texas A&M University System Board of Regents. However, after discussion with A&M System legal counsel, as well as advice from the Office of the Attorney General of Texas, I modified the recommended rule related to campus carry in private offices. That proposed rule, as well as the other proposed rules can be viewed at http://www.tamus.edu/proposed-campus-carry-rules/.

Absent further action by the A&M System Board of Regents, which will review these rules in April 2016, these rules will go into effect on August 1, 2016. The Task Force report is available at http://www.tamu.edu/statements/campus-carry.html.

The task force recommendations were formulated based on several key factors: results of the campus-wide survey of students, faculty and staff conducted last fall; feedback from individuals who might be directly affected by the legislation; careful review and analysis of the text of Senate Bill 11; legislative intent of the law; the 2015 Attorney General Opinions; January 26, 2016, discussions between members of the Texas Senate Committee on State Affairs and University System Chancellors; as well as recommendations from other public institutions of higher education.

I am confident that the real concern expressed throughout the process is reflected in the task force's recommendations, which are tailored specifically to the needs of our campuses, and are the most appropriate way to fully implement the new law at Texas A&M. Key recommendations include adoption of governing factors and principles; establishment of a working group to address implementation and ongoing issues; identification of specific license holder responsibilities; guidelines for campus community outreach and education; and regulations specific to residence halls; prohibition of handguns in compliance with existing federal and state statutes; and prohibition of concealed handguns in particular locations, events and situations on campus. Such exclusions to the law include individual private offices, as approved by me in light of the standard articulated in the rules, child care facilities, youth camps, counseling centers, legal clinics, clinical care facilities, research laboratories, maritime vessels, sporting venues and events, and premises where administrative investigations are conducted.

I am immensely grateful to the 22-member Campus Carry Policy Task Force and its chair, Assistant Vice President for Safety and Security Chris Meyer, for their thorough review of all aspects of upholding and implementing the new law and their commitment to ensuring the safety and security of our students, faculty, staff and campus visitors. My position on these issues is a matter of public record from the time I served as President of the University of Utah, but, as President of Texas A&M, I am committed to ensuring Texas A&M University is in compliance with the law and intend to implement this law and related university rules as efficiently and smoothly as possible.

Michael K. Young
President
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#47

Post by J.R.@A&M » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:10 pm

So the most interesting thing to me is the proposed option by individual faculty/staff to request a carve-out for their own office space:

Assigned employee offices for which the employee has demonstrated that the carrying of a concealed handgun by a license holder in the office presents a significant risk of substantial harm due to a negligent discharge of the handgun, and the president/CEO has approved the employee’s request that the office be designated as an area where licensed concealed carry of a handgun is not permitted

There are no labs or hearing rooms or any other potential carve outs in my building. But if individual offices are somehow posted, then if I had to visit their office, I would have to disarm in my own office and lock up my firearm. Would that even be allowed? For all I know, they are filming me in my office :)
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#48

Post by mojo84 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:23 pm

A couple of thoughts off the cuff without actually reading the rules.

This statement makes it sound like he is begrudgingly complying and sending a signal to the faculty that he is only doing this because he has to.
At the same time, as a state institution, we are subject to the demands of the law and will necessarily comply.
I am not sure he is confident the office option is going to pass muster but he put it in to show the faculty and staff he is going to bat for them. Comes across like he is pandering to them or trying to skate around the intent of the law, depending on his true feelings regarding campus carry.

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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#49

Post by ELB » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:40 pm

The Dallas News Campus Carry Tracker got updated pronto!
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#50

Post by J.R.@A&M » Sun May 08, 2016 8:11 am

Board of Regents made no changes. https://www.texastribune.org/2016/04/27 ... rooms-and/

" "You can't simply say, 'I don't like guns, so I am going to ban them in my office,'" said A&M System Chancellor John Sharp. "
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#51

Post by ELB » Sun May 08, 2016 8:30 am

"(One small exception: Dorms operated by private companies will be allowed to ban guns if they want.) "

This doesn't seem right. I'd have to go back and read the bill again closely to see if having a private operator makes a legal difference, but if the dorms are university-owned, what's the difference, with respect to civil rights and safety, between a university operated dorm and a privately operated (but university owned) dorm?
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#52

Post by TangoX-ray » Tue May 10, 2016 12:30 pm

ELB wrote:"(One small exception: Dorms operated by private companies will be allowed to ban guns if they want.) "

This doesn't seem right. I'd have to go back and read the bill again closely to see if having a private operator makes a legal difference, but if the dorms are university-owned, what's the difference, with respect to civil rights and safety, between a university operated dorm and a privately operated (but university owned) dorm?
If public universities cannot ban guns in university-owned dorms by statute, then management of other university-owned dorms does not give the management legal rights that the owners do not have (i.e. 30.06 postings on government-owned, but privately-occupied buildings).
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#53

Post by techguy85 » Tue May 24, 2016 8:57 am

J.R.@A&M wrote:So the most interesting thing to me is the proposed option by individual faculty/staff to request a carve-out for their own office space:

Assigned employee offices for which the employee has demonstrated that the carrying of a concealed handgun by a license holder in the office presents a significant risk of substantial harm due to a negligent discharge of the handgun, and the president/CEO has approved the employee’s request that the office be designated as an area where licensed concealed carry of a handgun is not permitted

There are no labs or hearing rooms or any other potential carve outs in my building. But if individual offices are somehow posted, then if I had to visit their office, I would have to disarm in my own office and lock up my firearm. Would that even be allowed? For all I know, they are filming me in my office :)
I found this entire discussion really interesting.
Since I might be taking a job at TAMU I decided to come and look around to see what the score on campus cary would be come August.
How many offices do you suppose will be granted this exception?

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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#54

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 24, 2016 10:44 am

techguy85 wrote:
J.R.@A&M wrote:So the most interesting thing to me is the proposed option by individual faculty/staff to request a carve-out for their own office space:

Assigned employee offices for which the employee has demonstrated that the carrying of a concealed handgun by a license holder in the office presents a significant risk of substantial harm due to a negligent discharge of the handgun, and the president/CEO has approved the employee’s request that the office be designated as an area where licensed concealed carry of a handgun is not permitted

There are no labs or hearing rooms or any other potential carve outs in my building. But if individual offices are somehow posted, then if I had to visit their office, I would have to disarm in my own office and lock up my firearm. Would that even be allowed? For all I know, they are filming me in my office :)
I found this entire discussion really interesting.
Since I might be taking a job at TAMU I decided to come and look around to see what the score on campus cary would be come August.
How many offices do you suppose will be granted this exception?
I would think few. Hopefully too few for me to worry about.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#55

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:06 am

I attended a non-mandatory training today about campus carry implementation, presented by Administration and UPD. They basically went over the proposed rules and took questions. The latter included quite a few from folks who still want to try and get their offices prohibited, but that sounds unlikely as the University has set that bar pretty high. The administrator/presenter indicated that their decision to raise the justification for prohibiting individual offices was in response to push back by their legal department.

The UPD presenter was a veteran who pointed out that campus carry was nothing new to them since it was legal outside the buildings since 1995. He said they already have to deal with issues of inadvertant un-concealment (outside of buildings), and gave practical advice about folks being responsible for securing and concealing their weapons. He also emphasized that in they still advise the same thing in active shooter situations (get out, hide, fight), and advised using a weapon in that context, i.e., defensively.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass


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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#56

Post by crazy2medic » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:20 am

maritime vessels? Why would you prohibit CC on a boat?
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#57

Post by bagman45 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:39 am

Will be happily carrying as we move my son into his dorm room at Texas A&M this coming fall!! Not an alumni, but over the many visits that our family made while he decided on A&M, I must say that we all became proud and humbled as Americans to watch and talk to the kids in the Corps of Cadetsas they do their business every day on campus. They display the discipline, humility and sense of service that our country was built on. He had his choice of colleges, but this will be his new home. As a parent, I know he'll be safe there, and will be among brothers and sisters who cherish their freedom, and are in a place where the leadership of the university will allow them to take responsibility for their own safety.


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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#58

Post by JMod45 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:49 pm

I have been trying to stay up to date on all the laws for campus carry. I work at TAMU, and I can't wait for August 1.

Who is going to be responsible for handling all of the rules that have been implemented? Do we know if this is all up to the committee that A&M formed? I have had a few questions, but not any definitive answers. I attended the same meeting that J.R.@A&M did, just on a different day. We had an officer from UPD, and I believe a member of the council. Most of the questions were about how someone could get their office posted, and who all was allowed to carry. I felt there were a couple of good questions asked, but not all answered.

The question I have been asked the most, and I believe this would apply to any University in Texas. Can a department tell their employees that they are not allowed to carry? I know private companies can make such a rule, so would the same thing be a possibility?

There are some intelligent people on this forum, hopefully someone else will know the answer to this. I have a couple other questions, if I can't find the answers I may post up on here.

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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#59

Post by ELB » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:46 pm

JMod45 wrote:...
The question I have been asked the most, and I believe this would apply to any University in Texas. Can a department tell their employees that they are not allowed to carry? I know private companies can make such a rule, so would the same thing be a possibility?....
It's been awhile since I read the law enacted by the legislature, but as I understand it, licensed concealed carry is legal everywhere on campus that is not already off-limits by statute OR in areas designated as no-carry by the president of the university, and those rules are subject to modification only by the regents. That power was not delegated to anyone farther down the power chain, so I don't see how a department chair/supervisor/dean/whathaveyou could legally apply any further restrictions.
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Re: SB11 Implementation at A&M College Station

#60

Post by J.R.@A&M » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:42 pm

JMod45 wrote: Can a department tell their employees that they are not allowed to carry? I know private companies can make such a rule, so would the same thing be a possibility?
No, a department cannot do that, by my understanding of the TAMUS rules. They have put the burden on those making prohibition requests, on a room by room basis. It's beautiful :)
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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