This is why I will not own any Apple products!

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#106

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:42 pm

Bitter Clinger wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
WildBill wrote:
android wrote:
As long as your drawbridge was not owned by the city you lived in and used during the committment of capital murder by terrorists who are NOT ISIS affiliated, you seem to have a clear cut infallible argument.
Just to be clear.....you require that TWO conditions be met: (1) not municipally owned (in my example it is privately owned on my land), and (2) not used during the commitment of terrorist murder. I rather suspect that you meant "OR" instead of "and". Since my example excluded municipal ownership, the clear implication is that I no longer own the rights to my own property if someone else beyond my control misuses it for terrorist purposes. According to that position, if I have some tenuous connection of which I may not even be aware (coworker of, distantly related to, attended the same mosque/church at some point, college roommates with, 3rd cousin of a friend, etc.) with a person who turns out to be an ISIS terrorist, and that ISIS terrorist uses my drawbridge once to sneak across my property uninvited in order to climb over another the back fence of and link up with another ISIS terrorist who turns out to be a co-conspirator, and the two of them commit an act of terrorism in which people are killed. I no longer own my drawbridge.....the government does?

I'm not the terrorist. My terms of use (must be invited across...i.e. "licensed... for lawful purposes) of my drawbridge were clearly violated. I committed no crime. But since my drawbridge was used unlawfully by one terrorist to connect with another terrorist for the purpose of committing capital murder. ........I no longer own my drawbridge.

Jefferson is spinning in his grave.
OK, the bridge thing has me spinning, i think I may be the terrorist now :mrgreen:

Let's try this to bring it back to your favorite technology vendor Apple:

Two hypotheticals -

1.0 Tim Cook is scared that ISIS will initiate reprisals upon Apple worldwide if he is seen to cooperate with the FBI and he is less scared of violating the court order. But he does have the technological solution.

2.0 Tim Cook has the technological solution and has already assisted the FBI in retrieving the data. This whole thing is a smokescreen designed to not let ISIS know that they are about to join the 72 virgins travel club (with a nod to Andy).

Like it? I do. If you do, let's try to solve the mystery of Flight 370.

Image
I like it, but I'm not sure Flight 370 can be solved..... :evil2:

1.0 doesn't sound that plausible to me. 2.0 sounds plausible, but who knows? There's always 3.0..... Tim Cook is actually telling the truth, and we're back to square one. :banghead: "rlol" :smilelol5:
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treadlightly
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#107

Post by treadlightly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:57 pm

Tonight on Fox (O'Reilly, I think), I heard a gentleman argue with passion against the private use of unbreakable cryptography. Plentiful reasons exist to crack terrorist communications wide open.

But questions remain.

If cryptography is outlawed, just exactly what mathematics will be banned from private use? That's all cryptography is, math, and there is also truly unbreakable crypto that requires almost no math - the fearsome one time pad. Use the reversible exclusive-or boolean function, character by character, xor-ing your plaintext against, perhaps, a jpeg file from a web site, and you have something the NSA can't unscramble - but you and your buddies can.

Since it is that easy, why pretend to control it?

Or, how about going whole-hog anti-strong crypto? Right now you'd be counted a hero if you could break the iPhone's encryption. But wait, if you broke the government's AES cipher, would you really be doing a good thing? It's exactly what the government thinks it wants right now - but would that really be a good thing to release into the wild?

I don't often think about it, but encryption is one of the reasons I got my little Macbook Air. I wanted a portable writing machine with long battery life, and I didn't want to have to explain works of fiction to anyone wondering what the heck I was writing about.

So I encrypt. If I lose my laptop I don't have to worry about works in progress being waved around.


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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#108

Post by Solaris » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:52 pm

treadlightly wrote:Tonight on Fox (O'Reilly, I think), I heard a gentleman argue with passion against the private use of unbreakable cryptography. Plentiful reasons exist to crack terrorist communications wide open.
Ralph Peters is completely off the rails. "Tim Cook is telling terrorists, rapists and thugs, hey buy an iPhone, Apple has your back".

From what I have seen, 99% of the non-tech people think Apple has the key in a safe at Cupertino and is refusing to give it FBI.


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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#109

Post by Dave2 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:39 am

Solaris wrote:
treadlightly wrote:Tonight on Fox (O'Reilly, I think), I heard a gentleman argue with passion against the private use of unbreakable cryptography. Plentiful reasons exist to crack terrorist communications wide open.
Ralph Peters is completely off the rails. "Tim Cook is telling terrorists, rapists and thugs, hey buy an iPhone, Apple has your back".

From what I have seen, 99% of the non-tech people think Apple has the key in a safe at Cupertino and is refusing to give it FBI.
Yeah, and it's amazing how tightly they cling to their erroneous belief.
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#110

Post by WildBill » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:56 am

Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2

http://nymag.com/following/2016/02/john ... phone.html
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#111

Post by koine2002 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:04 am

WildBill wrote:Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2
I read the whole thing. He doesn't want the back door, either. I can almost guarantee that the FBI won't even give it a look. My speculation is that they want a backdoor they can use at will because that 4th Amendment is just too pesky for them. If they get this the next demand will be for Apple to just give them the source code.
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#112

Post by Redneck_Buddha » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:04 am

WildBill wrote:Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2

http://nymag.com/following/2016/02/john ... phone.html
McAfee went nuts awhile back. Framed for murder in Belize, but still whack-a-doo,

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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#113

Post by Jusme » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:05 am

WildBill wrote:Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2

http://nymag.com/following/2016/02/john ... phone.html

Publicity stunt or not, if the FBI refuses to even look into this as a possibility, then it will just re-affirm Apple's assertion that the FBI is looking for a tool to use again, and again, not just wanting to access the one phone.
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WildBill
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#114

Post by WildBill » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:23 am

Redneck_Buddha wrote:
WildBill wrote:Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2

http://nymag.com/following/2016/02/john ... phone.html
McAfee went nuts awhile back. Framed for murder in Belize, but still whack-a-doo,
I have been reading up on him. He is a big time whack-a-doo. :iagree:
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#115

Post by Redneck_Buddha » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:46 am

WildBill wrote:
Redneck_Buddha wrote:
WildBill wrote:Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2

http://nymag.com/following/2016/02/john ... phone.html
McAfee went nuts awhile back. Framed for murder in Belize, but still whack-a-doo,
I have been reading up on him. He is a big time whack-a-doo. :iagree:

..and probably with a huge axe to grind against Apple. :reddevil

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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#116

Post by Bitter Clinger » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:54 am

Dave2 wrote:
Solaris wrote:
treadlightly wrote:Tonight on Fox (O'Reilly, I think), I heard a gentleman argue with passion against the private use of unbreakable cryptography. Plentiful reasons exist to crack terrorist communications wide open.
Ralph Peters is completely off the rails. "Tim Cook is telling terrorists, rapists and thugs, hey buy an iPhone, Apple has your back".

From what I have seen, 99% of the non-tech people think Apple has the key in a safe at Cupertino and is refusing to give it FBI.
Yeah, and it's amazing how tightly they cling to their erroneous belief.
Yeah, that's the problem solving spirit that made America great, NOT.
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If you needed any more proof of exactly how wrong you are, the Dallas Morning News supports your position:
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edito ... lp-fbi.ece
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WildBill
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#117

Post by WildBill » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:10 pm

Redneck_Buddha wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Redneck_Buddha wrote:
WildBill wrote:Interesting news - Anti virus software developer, John McAfee has offered to hack the phone for free.

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... ree-2016-2

http://nymag.com/following/2016/02/john ... phone.html
McAfee went nuts awhile back. Framed for murder in Belize, but still whack-a-doo,
I have been reading up on him. He is a big time whack-a-doo. :iagree:

..and probably with a huge axe to grind against Apple. :reddevil
I don't know about that, but if I were the FBI there is no way I would even talk to the guy.
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WildBill
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#118

Post by WildBill » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:28 pm

The court extended the deadline until February 26th.
The company’s response in court will be due Feb. 26 instead of Tuesday, said two people familiar with the timeline, who asked not to be identified because the matter wasn’t public. The federal magistrate who on Feb. 16 granted the Justice Department’s request for an order forcing Apple to help the FBI had given the company five business days to oppose her order.
http://www.cultofmac.com/413192/court-e ... ncryption/
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#119

Post by sjfcontrol » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:02 pm

I heard a report this morning that the NYC police department has something like 140 iPhones they can't hack, and if the FBI is successful, they want in. (No slippery slope there -- just a cliff!)

Also, guess which bombastic "republican" candidate for president just proposed boycotting Apple until they relent.
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sjfcontrol
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#120

Post by sjfcontrol » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:05 pm

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
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