This is why I will not own any Apple products!

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Solaris
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#46

Post by Solaris » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:10 pm

Bitter Clinger wrote: NSA only captures meta-data. Not content.
Not exactly. The phone companies only give them meta-data, but what they capture, via SIGINT, is everything.


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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#47

Post by Solaris » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:15 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:[
Bitter, we're almost on the same page. My impression is that the gov't is pressuring Apple to write a new version of iOS with a backdoor in it.
Yep, and it will be called (drumroll);

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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#48

Post by ScubaSigGuy » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:16 pm

And this is why I WILL continue to buy Apple until they cave!
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#49

Post by koine2002 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:43 pm

I applaud Apple for this. Demanding a back door into an OS to be programmed is only asking for trouble. The FBI will be singing a different tune if proposed hack gets leaked and it ends up compromising a high level official's phone.

Also, you'll have to avoid any and all Android phones and anything Google now, too. http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/17/11040 ... encryption
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#50

Post by SewTexas » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:00 pm

I'm glad to hear Google finally spoke up. I like my android.
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#51

Post by Pawpaw » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:21 pm

IMO, anyone who sides with the government on this probably thinks "1984" was a story about utopia.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#52

Post by Solaris » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:43 pm

Pawpaw wrote:IMO, anyone who sides with the government on this probably thinks "1984" was a story about utopia.
Ted Cruz just sided with FBI at Town Hall tonight.

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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#53

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:03 pm

Solaris wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:IMO, anyone who sides with the government on this probably thinks "1984" was a story about utopia.
Ted Cruz just sided with FBI at Town Hall tonight.
Ted Cruz is wrong on this. Nobody's perfect.
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#54

Post by treadlightly » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:12 pm

Encryption and munitions are close cousins and the right to keep and bear arms is a very parallel concept with a citizen's right to strong encryption.

As to whether or not there is physically a way for Apple to comply, I'm not sure, but it looks like the request is for a port that would allow rapid-fire trial-and-error passcode attempts. If the point that port would need to be installed is within a chip, it's probably completely impractical to apply it to the individual terrorist's phone, and an erosion of privacy for them to put such a thing in going forward.

As to the notion there is always a way to defeat cryptography, that's not really the case.

For an interesting example, read up on Diffie-Hellman key exchange.

Extremely secure cryptography is available in a number of ways if you can get the parties to agree on a secret key.

Diffie-Hellman allows complete strangers with no prearranged keys a way they can each independently arrive at the same secret key. As the strangers go through the process, the world can listen to everything they have to say and still have no means of figuring out the secret key.

The math behind Diffie-Hellman is very simple. A breach of that protocol would be big news. It's a pretty sure bet there isn't a way to pierce that veil.

And, for full disclosure, I post this from a Macbook Air. Not because I liked Steve Jobs' politics, but as a Unix admin I like the kernel architecture the Mac OS runs on.

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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#55

Post by SewTexas » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:50 pm

this may be "simplistic" but if he did a back-up, why can't they just access the back-up on the cloud?
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#56

Post by Dave2 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:59 pm

SewTexas wrote:this may be "simplistic" but if he did a back-up, why can't they just access the back-up on the cloud?
It's encrypted.
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#57

Post by SewTexas » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:15 am

ah, ok.

so, why not get a warrant for that specific back-up? wouldn't that make more sense?
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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#58

Post by Smokey » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:53 am

I would also wonder how they could load new software on it without first unlocking it. If Apple could do that, they could just load on a new OS that unlocks the phone automatically, without having to make the FBI to brute force guess the password. I wonder if the auto-wiping logic is in a less restricted part of the phone that can be changed without unlocking the phone. Otherwise what the FBI is asking for makes no sense

Lots of people wanting to put in back doors and such, or give a way for certain "trusted" people to have access. The problem with making systems less than secure is that they WILL be exploited, and you cannot guarantee that they will only be exploited by "the good guys". I guarantee there are other countries and organizations out there watching this case and saying to themselves "oh please add a backdoor..."


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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#59

Post by Solaris » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:39 am

SewTexas wrote:ah, ok.

so, why not get a warrant for that specific back-up? wouldn't that make more sense?
They did. His last back-up was Oct. 19, 2015. They think he turned off iCloud backups after that.


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Re: This is why I will not own any Apple products!

#60

Post by Solaris » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:44 am

Smokey wrote:I would also wonder how they could load new software on it without first unlocking it. If Apple could do that, they could just load on a new OS that unlocks the phone automatically, without having to make the FBI to brute force guess the password. I wonder if the auto-wiping logic is in a less restricted part of the phone that can be changed without unlocking the phone. Otherwise what the FBI is asking for makes no sense
The FBI wants AAPL to create and install an iOS that removes wipe, removes delay and allows passcodes to be remotely entered via Cable, BT, or WiFi from a PC so they do not have to type them. A new OS will not allow them to unlocks the phone automatically.

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