TAA lease asking for LTC?

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ScottDLS
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#16

Post by ScottDLS » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:20 pm

Kind of annoying that they ask, why not just say no even if you have one they don't need it. If they want to ban CC in the common areas they'll post 30.06 or use the language in the lease. Otherwise they'll be none the wiser. pay the rent on time and most places will never notice what you carry.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#17

Post by jkurtz » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:46 pm

I am glad my that my apartment is pretty gun friendly. The only firearms regulation in the lease states something along the lines of "illegal firearms are prohibited."

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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#18

Post by Jim Beaux » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:59 pm

In the spirit of the ole, "Dont start no trouble & there wont be no trouble"- I ignore intrusive questions that arent applicable. I only address them when confronted about my "over sight". ;-)

A few years ago I was pulled over & given a warning for 1 of 2 rear license plate lights being out. Nice stop with friendly chit chat. As the officer was entering the info into an electronic hand held device, he asked what line of work I was in. I told him sorry, but I didnt want to provide that information. We made eye contact and he slightly smiled & said he understood. :tiphat: We shook hands & wished each other a safe night.
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#19

Post by gljjt » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:45 am

If I was asked, I would just say I don't have one. Or if it is a question on the form, put "NA". You aren't under oath. It's not material to the contract.

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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#20

Post by SIGFan43 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:36 am

I live in an apartment complex with a new TAA addendum attached to the back of the lease form. No one has ever asked to see my LTC here. I do know that in Texas, when you are asked for photo ID, the LTC is a legal substitute for a driver license or state ID card (for those who don't drive). In the lease addendum where I live, there are four options they can choose to check off: 1 and 2 pertain to carrying handguns concealed or open carry anywhere on the property (except inside your car and apartment or directly to and from your apartment); 3 and 4 pertain to carrying handguns concealed or open carry in the leasing office/community room. My landlord chose to ban guns from the leasing office/community room, and that building has signs on the outside at both entrances. I had to sign this addendum form or choose to live somewhere else. As long as I can carry on my daily walks, check my mailbox, or visit a neighbor while armed, I don't care about going to bingo games or attending their parties. If I have important business in the leasing office, I leave my handgun in my car at the front door of the office. I have not tested my option for open carry here, because I don't want to make waves. You're probably asking yourself why I don't move? The answer is that I have 2-3 close friends that I treasure, who also live here.
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#21

Post by TexasTornado » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:56 am

MeMelYup wrote:Why is open carry more dangerous than concealed?
I have wondered over this question myself. Personally I'd rather see the weapon. Then if during an eviction process etc. I notice the person becoming agitated I can adjust my approach of the matter accordingly.

On the flip side, I'm still unconvinced that having a weapon visible doesn't automatically escalate the level of violence in the event of a physical confrontation. Not saying the LTC holders actions would be any different, but a person attacking them is less likely to just shove/grab. They are going to act with increased force to compensate.

Just my theory.
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#22

Post by flechero » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:57 am

There is nothing good that can come of providing it. In fact, it's about as helpful as asking the drunk crowd at the pool to help you carry up a few suitcases full of cash, right after explaining how old and weak you are. :banghead:

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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#23

Post by ScottDLS » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:38 am

I was just thinking. I wonder if they might use it instead of running a background check on you? In that case it ought to be in the application not the lease. I'd probably still leave it out.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#24

Post by Distinguished Rick » Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:07 pm

The law is pretty clear as to whom you are required to show your LTC to, they aren't on the list.
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#25

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:01 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
txyaloo wrote:
TexasJohnBoy wrote:A friend of mine at work currently rents an apartment, and he's up to renew. He told me this morning that he noticed a new sheet in the TAA lease asking for a copy of your LTC if you've got one. This seems mighty odd to me, and I haven't seen the paperwork yet.

But, it made me wonder, what are the ramifications of this? Can you be denied a lease because you hold an LTC and therefore have guns in your home (albeit, rented home)? Can you say noneya and then be evicted if they ever find out you have one?

I told him if it were me I would tell them NONEYA! But that's me, and he doesn't currently have an LTC. I also thought that since your appartment is your home, a landlord can't tell you no guns - but they can restrict open carry on the premises. I also know the topic of 30.06 has been discussed on whether or not it's valid for the rest of the complex besides your unit.
Why wouldn't they be able to say no guns? A person leasing an apartment is entering into a contract. If they don't agree with the terms of the contract, they could find a place to live with more agreeable terms. Gun owners aren't protected classes. It's not discrimination to choose not to lease to gun owners.
Because its none of their business. Then again I also disagree with behavior codes in leases like when you renting to a single person and telling them that they cannot have opposite sex visitors in their home after dark, or can't get tattoos, or have alcohol in the apartment, etc.

Others may disagree with me on the proper balance between property ownership rights and personal freedom.
My only quibble with your standard would be when the rental in question is a room inside the landlord's home. When I was a student at A&M, I rented a single bedroom on a month-to-month basis in a private home off campus - which shared a connecting bathroom with a second bedroom which my landlady also rented out to students. She made clear what her standards were when she rented out those rooms to students, and they were pretty much the same "my house, my rules" kind of rules that most rational people would insist on being followed inside their homes.

That is clearly a different situation from the commercial renting/leasing of apartments, where each unit is a discreet residence in which all rooms of that residence are under the control of the lessee, and over which the landlord gives up certain rights as long as the rent is current, and as long as the lessee's actions are not abridging the rights of other tenants.

Where I have questions and am unclear as to the restrictions in the law, and would appreciate Charles Cotton's take on this, is this........ If the common areas of an apartment building — i.e. laundry room, patio/pool, parking areas, etc. — are posted 30.06, (a) does a tenant who is license holder have carry rights in those common areas, since access to those areas comes along with his/her tenancy in an apartment there, and they are in some limited way under the tenant's control while using them, and (b) if (a) is in the affirmative, can a tenant then give permission to a friend/family member to carry past those signs, since he/she has "control/access" over/to those areas?
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#26

Post by C-dub » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:52 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
txyaloo wrote:
TexasJohnBoy wrote:A friend of mine at work currently rents an apartment, and he's up to renew. He told me this morning that he noticed a new sheet in the TAA lease asking for a copy of your LTC if you've got one. This seems mighty odd to me, and I haven't seen the paperwork yet.

But, it made me wonder, what are the ramifications of this? Can you be denied a lease because you hold an LTC and therefore have guns in your home (albeit, rented home)? Can you say noneya and then be evicted if they ever find out you have one?

I told him if it were me I would tell them NONEYA! But that's me, and he doesn't currently have an LTC. I also thought that since your appartment is your home, a landlord can't tell you no guns - but they can restrict open carry on the premises. I also know the topic of 30.06 has been discussed on whether or not it's valid for the rest of the complex besides your unit.
Why wouldn't they be able to say no guns? A person leasing an apartment is entering into a contract. If they don't agree with the terms of the contract, they could find a place to live with more agreeable terms. Gun owners aren't protected classes. It's not discrimination to choose not to lease to gun owners.
Because its none of their business. Then again I also disagree with behavior codes in leases like when you renting to a single person and telling them that they cannot have opposite sex visitors in their home after dark, or can't get tattoos, or have alcohol in the apartment, etc.

Others may disagree with me on the proper balance between property ownership rights and personal freedom.
My only quibble with your standard would be when the rental in question is a room inside the landlord's home. When I was a student at A&M, I rented a single bedroom on a month-to-month basis in a private home off campus - which shared a connecting bathroom with a second bedroom which my landlady also rented out to students. She made clear what her standards were when she rented out those rooms to students, and they were pretty much the same "my house, my rules" kind of rules that most rational people would insist on being followed inside their homes.

That is clearly a different situation from the commercial renting/leasing of apartments, where each unit is a discreet residence in which all rooms of that residence are under the control of the lessee, and over which the landlord gives up certain rights as long as the rent is current, and as long as the lessee's actions are not abridging the rights of other tenants.

Where I have questions and am unclear as to the restrictions in the law, and would appreciate Charles Cotton's take on this, is this........ If the common areas of an apartment building — i.e. laundry room, patio/pool, parking areas, etc. — are posted 30.06, (a) does a tenant who is license holder have carry rights in those common areas, since access to those areas comes along with his/her tenancy in an apartment there, and they are in some limited way under the tenant's control while using them, and (b) if (a) is in the affirmative, can a tenant then give permission to a friend/family member to carry past those signs, since he/she has "control/access" over/to those areas?
I'm not sure about (a), but I do think (b) would be a negative for the same reason that we really didn't have the authority to allow someone to OC in our homes prior to OC being legal. We could do it, but as the argument went, who would make the complaint? The only problem here would be that I'm sure someone would make a complaint if they became aware of anyone CCing in the laundry or other common area.
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Re: TAA lease asking for LTC?

#27

Post by RedRaiderCHL » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:33 pm

Ive lived in an apartment with a clause in the main lease that says no firearms are allowed on the complex, for years(and ive had guns they know about for all of those years.)

The reason for these types of clauses (depending on the landlord of course) are usually not to keep people from having guns. It is usually to keep the apartment complex safe from liability in the event that a renter is involved in a "bad shooting." That way they can say "well, he signed and agreed to not have any firearms on the complex... so its not our fault he shot someone unlawfully."

Now of course you will have some anti-gun landlords who make it their personal mission to evict those tenants that have guns.. but in that case.. just ask them before you sign the lease about their particular gun rules/clause in the lease. My landlord told me that it was fine and that they don't care, it was just a general lease they use.

There is also a clause that says that the complex has "no requirement or responsibility to enforce the lease" so in the event someone got upset about you having guns...sucks to be them.

now that im an LEO it doesn't matter that I have guns, but prior to that I dealt with that issue at both apt complexes I lived at, it didn't matter. I just never open carried into their main office lol
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