TexasCHLforum.com

I would like to be able to kick the crap out of him. I'm too old and out of shape. I have to leave that to one of my friends now, Smith, Ruger, Glock, Wesson, Colt, Browning.

Ruark wrote:Then there's the nitpicking question of just WHEN you would intervene with deadly force. After he hit him one time? Two times? Two hits and a kick? Do it too early, and you're sticking your neck out legally. Do it too late and, well, it's too late.

Myself..... defending myself or my family is one thing. But killing somebody to defend a stranger is another. It's a crazy world out there; people are being beaten and robbed as you read this. I would probably go over and kick the crap out of the bad guy (i.e., use force) and tell him to stop. If he made a threatening move of any kind, I'd repeat, "STOP!" and expose or draw my weapon. After that, up to him.

.
I'm moving after the first blow delivered. By the time I can establish a safe cushion .proper shooting alley and gain the attackers attention, he has most likely delivered 6 more blows. I can't believe someone might not intervene because the victim is not family or known to you. I can only place myself in the position of the victim. One blow to the head could be fatal to me ( My blood is kept so thin that I bleed if you look at me wrong). I couldn't live with myself if I did nothing. As far as physically intervening, after seeing what can be done at close range with a knife, I'm keeping my distance.

Assuming that I were a bystander who does not have the physical skills to deal with the attacker, the options of what to do come with serious risks. Given the viciousness of the the attack, the outcome of drawing and pointing a gun at the attacker is unpredictable. He has already gone into a fit of rage and is likely hopped up on at least adrenaline. It is far from a given that he would comply with verbal orders to stop and seems more likely to charge me and my gun, giving me no choice but to fire. Criminals seem to wantonly charge law enforcement with their weapons drawn and I would assume an equal willingness to do the same to a citizen with a gun. Thinking through that possible sequence underscores the need for quick reflexes and faster thinking, both of which can be problematic for me.

So what would be the legal outcome of shooting the attacker, in today's world? Ethnic backgrounds definitely count, though they shouldn't. The news will likely read "man shoots unarmed black teenager". The rest of the details will never make the report.

WTR wrote:

Ruark wrote:Then there's the nitpicking question of just WHEN you would intervene with deadly force. After he hit him one time? Two times? Two hits and a kick? Do it too early, and you're sticking your neck out legally. Do it too late and, well, it's too late.

Myself..... defending myself or my family is one thing. But killing somebody to defend a stranger is another. It's a crazy world out there; people are being beaten and robbed as you read this. I would probably go over and kick the crap out of the bad guy (i.e., use force) and tell him to stop. If he made a threatening move of any kind, I'd repeat, "STOP!" and expose or draw my weapon. After that, up to him.

.
I'm moving after the first blow delivered. By the time I can establish a safe cushion .proper shooting alley and gain the attackers attention, he has most likely delivered 6 more blows. I can't believe someone might not intervene because the victim is not family or known to you. I can only place myself in the position of the victim. One blow to the head could be fatal to me ( My blood is kept so thin that I bleed if you look at me wrong). I couldn't live with myself if I did nothing. As far as physically intervening, after seeing what can be done at close range with a knife, I'm keeping my distance.

All I can hope is that if, God forbid, I am ever the victim of a raging sociopath who is trying to beat me to death that its WTR, or someone who thinks like him and shares the same values, who is there!

Bitter Clinger wrote:

WTR wrote:I'm moving after the first blow delivered. By the time I can establish a safe cushion .proper shooting alley and gain the attackers attention, he has most likely delivered 6 more blows. I can't believe someone might not intervene because the victim is not family or known to you. I can only place myself in the position of the victim. One blow to the head could be fatal to me ( My blood is kept so thin that I bleed if you look at me wrong). I couldn't live with myself if I did nothing. As far as physically intervening, after seeing what can be done at close range with a knife, I'm keeping my distance.

All I can hope is that if, God forbid, I am ever the victim of a raging sociopath who is trying to beat me to death that its WTR, or someone who thinks like him and shares the same values, who is there!

Two to the chest, one to the head, repeat as necessary.

This incident has made me more aware of how I am handling my cash in a public situation. Last night on the way home I stopped to run into a 7-11. Before getting out of the car I removed the cash I was going to use from my wallet and folded it in my hand. Didn't expose the cash until I was told the total of the transaction.
Our society is getting too full of feral animals looking for weak prey.

I use a money clip with smaller bills. If by slim chance I have larger bills they are in my wallet. If I am robbed or like in this case they can keep the $10.00. Also this is another reason I do not go into "Stop N Robs" anymore.

It's important to always be aware of your surroundings - make sure it's not a ruse. Assuming no one else in the store, "HEY!!! STOP IT!!!" while moving away... he probably wouldn't. "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!" with my weapon drawn. If he doesn't stop and keeps punching the other guy with that level of savagery, I'd put him down. If he stops the attack and runs away, I wouldn't chase him, but I'd stick around for the police and ambulance to arrive and give as much info as possible. Wouldn't even be a question.

And would I feel bad about possibly killing the bad guy if I had to put him down? Not nearly as bad as I would feel if the bad guy killed the defenseless old man in the robbery in front of me and I did nothing to stop it.

NavAir wrote:Does a third party have the right to draw weapon and defend guy #1?

Being significantly older than the attacker is a useful disparity of force "card" if the need arises.

rp_photo wrote:

NavAir wrote:Does a third party have the right to draw weapon and defend guy #1?

Being significantly older than the attacker is a useful disparity of force "card" if the need arises.

http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5#p1164010

I would have stopped this monster by any means available and if I had to kill him I would sleep well. Creatures like this have no place in a peaceful advanced Society.

That guy is very lucky to be alive and not severely injured. At one point the thug knees the guy in the head. At some point you have to intervene in that as the intention is clearly to do serious bodily harm!

Follow-up:

In a plea bargain back in November, the thug in the video pled guilty to aggravated robbery for which he received 20 years, and to an unspecified, unrelated felony for which he received 8 years, sentences to run concurrently.

http://www.ktre.com/story/36888404/man- ... o-20-years

Another article says the victim got his $35 back.

My threshold for armed intervention would probably be about when he started kicking and striking with the knee.

I carry primarily to defend me and mine but I'm not going to standby and watch somebody potentially get beat to death in close proximity. Especially if if I've seen the situation develop.

This is a question to ponder:

Per my understanding of the law and the circumstances, we are not obliged to give him a warning. If we do, he could run (and that would be a great outcome) or he could fight. Considering his aggression, I would not put it past him to want to fight. Is giving him a warning putting us at a tactical disadvantage?

At any rate, if you break leather, be ready to do something if needed because you just introduced a gun into this situation.

A very unfortunate scenario to see play out but a good reminder and food for thought.

SQLGeek wrote:Per my understanding of the law and the circumstances, we are not obliged to give him a warning. If we do, he could run (and that would be a great outcome) or he could fight. Considering his aggression, I would not put it past him to want to fight. Is giving him a warning putting us at a tactical disadvantage?

Simply being a law abiding citizen puts you at a tactical disadvantage.

As soon as I started reading this account even w/o seeing the video I knew the place and the crime.
Here is another lesson that there is on safe side of town any more.
My Mother lives in a 55+ retirement park. This took place a little less than a mile from here house.
Victim is still in pretty bad shape. Perpetrator got 20 yrs for the $35.00.
Carry 24-7 or guess right.

I like most others cannot believe no one tried to help him.