Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

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Pariah3j
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#16

Post by Pariah3j » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:40 am

anygunanywhere wrote:
montgomery wrote:
... Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”
Everyone knows that self defense applies as a legal defense only on double dog dares.
Excellent point.
the double dog dare made me chuckle :lol:

But in all seriousness, think someone says "I dare you!" while backing up or walking away? My guess is he did that while puffing up his chest and getting closer. Someone does that to me when I already feel threatened enough to pull a gun and point it at them, and I believe my trigger finger is going to start getting itchy. The situation would ultimately decide on the outcome, but I could see where that was justifiably perceived as a threat.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#17

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:02 pm

Pariah3j wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
montgomery wrote:
... Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”
Everyone knows that self defense applies as a legal defense only on double dog dares.
Excellent point.
the double dog dare made me chuckle :lol:

But in all seriousness, think someone says "I dare you!" while backing up or walking away? My guess is he did that while puffing up his chest and getting closer. Someone does that to me when I already feel threatened enough to pull a gun and point it at them, and I believe my trigger finger is going to start getting itchy. The situation would ultimately decide on the outcome, but I could see where that was justifiably perceived as a threat.
I'm picturing the LTC'er standing there with a drawn gun facing an aggressor who is very close to him. If that were me*, my focus would be on the other guy's hands, not his words. To me, this is much like the situations we have seen with LEO shootings of unarmed folks. We can infer from the friend's statements that the aggressor was not backing away after seeing the gun. To me, that would be a huge red flag that I might be dealing with someone who is either high or mentally unstable. We also know that the aggressor was attempting to escalate the situation by using words that are designed to provoke a reaction. If the aggressor moved his hand toward the gun, even slightly, a reasonable person would likely conclude that this aggressive, and likely unstable, person was trying to grab the gun. Once he gets a hold of it, he and his friend could easily overpower and then murder their victim.

If this goes in front of the same type of grand jury that has heard recent cases of officer involved shootings across the country, then this is an easy no bill.

*note that I would like to think I would have handled this differently prior to this point, and would not draw a gun against someone at bad breath distance unless I was going to immediately fire in fear for my life.
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montgomery
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#18

Post by montgomery » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:19 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:... unless I was going to immediately fire in fear for my life.
To clarify, fear alone is not enough for deadly force to be justified. One that is in fear for their life because the OP is the aggressor with the means to immediately and imminently cause severe bodily harm or death to you and / or your loved ones is the standard. Agree?

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Pariah3j
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#19

Post by Pariah3j » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:34 pm

montgomery wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:... unless I was going to immediately fire in fear for my life.
To clarify, fear alone is not enough for deadly force to be justified. One that is in fear for their life because the OP is the aggressor with the means to immediately and imminently cause severe bodily harm or death to you and / or your loved ones is the standard. Agree?
I would agree - but everyone has the ability to cause imminent/severe bodily harm with their fists - especially when there are 2 of them. Being outnumbered and having someone displaying the type of aggression we are assuming/guessing at, especially after you've drawn your weapon, kind of elevates the situation IMO
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#20

Post by BBYC » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:55 pm

Quotes from the Star Tribune in the Twin Cities that didn't make the NY news for some reason.
The passenger said he and Rahim yelled at Weiss and threatened to fight him. The passenger said Rahim got very close to Weiss, but that neither he nor Rahim touched Weiss.
Weiss said Rahim responded, "That's not even a real gun," and spat at Weiss. Weiss said Rahim then reached for the gun
Weiss called police after the shooting.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#21

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm

BBYC wrote:Quotes from the Star Tribune in the Twin Cities that didn't make the NY news for some reason.
The passenger said he and Rahim yelled at Weiss and threatened to fight him. The passenger said Rahim got very close to Weiss, but that neither he nor Rahim touched Weiss.
Weiss said Rahim responded, "That's not even a real gun," and spat at Weiss. Weiss said Rahim then reached for the gun
Weiss called police after the shooting.
The second that the aggressor reached for the gun, he introduced a real risk of death on the part of the LTC'er, IMHO. I continue to wonder why this guy was charged. Does the police captain tell his officers to not fire even when they are facing two aggressors, and one of them reaches for his drawn gun?
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#22

Post by tool4daman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:01 pm

I don’t wonder why he was charged. I used to live in Minnesota. The twin cities and Rochester are as liberal as they come. In fact, the Hennepin County sheriff (city of Minneapolis) at one time was refusing to issue CHLs.
Last edited by tool4daman on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#23

Post by pbwalker » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:16 pm

tool4daman wrote:I don’t wonder why he was charged. I used to live in Minnesota. The twin cities and Rochester are as liberal as they come. In fact, the Hennepin County sheriff (city of Minneapolis) at one time was refusing to issue CHLs at one time.
Just about to pipe in with the same. I spent 7 years in Duluth (mid-90's to early 2000's) and this guy is stuck either way. The DFL has destroyed that state, yet the most affected folks on the Iron Range continue to vote for them.
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Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

#24

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 am

pbwalker wrote:
tool4daman wrote:I don’t wonder why he was charged. I used to live in Minnesota. The twin cities and Rochester are as liberal as they come. In fact, the Hennepin County sheriff (city of Minneapolis) at one time was refusing to issue CHLs at one time.
Just about to pipe in with the same. I spent 7 years in Duluth (mid-90's to early 2000's) and this guy is stuck either way. The DFL has destroyed that state, yet the most affected folks on the Iron Range continue to vote for them.
I spent a good chunk of my life in the Seattle area, so I can commiserate to some extent. It really is a different mindset in some parts of this country. Even more so in neighboring countries like California, New York, etc.

To paraphrase Jack Nicolson's character from As Good As It Gets, "It's easy to understand liberals. Just picture a normal person, then remove all logic and common sense."
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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