Secession?

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Grundy1133
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Secession?

#1

Post by Grundy1133 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:34 pm

I read an article abou tNorth Carolina introducing a bill that would allow them to secede from the US should the federal govt attempt to disarm their citizens of firearms that have been legally purchased... It made me wonder if other states would do the same thing... If they try to get rid of the 2nd amendment, Texas would be allowed to secede per the treaty that was signed. One requirement in the treaty was that the constitution was to be upheld... If the govt fails to do so, do you think Texas would secede, or if one state seceded do you think others would follow suit and we end up with a 2nd civil war?
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Re: Secession?

#2

Post by apostate » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:50 pm

Didn't they try that already?
I'm too old for this...

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Re: Secession?

#3

Post by J.R.@A&M » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:36 am

It is South Carolina (http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-g ... 32169.html), and it is a dumber idea now than it was in 1861. Not because of the martial implications, but because of the economic ones. South Carolina would make a pretty poor country. Its currency would be weak, and its interest rates would be sky high, and its economy would regress.
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Re: Secession?

#4

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:41 am

J.R.@A&M wrote:It is South Carolina (http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-g ... 32169.html), and it is a dumber idea now than it was in 1861. Not because of the martial implications, but because of the economic ones. South Carolina would make a pretty poor country. Its currency would be weak, and its interest rates would be sky high, and its economy would regress.
Texas on the other hand would be pretty decent.. I mean heck we've done it before. lol
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Re: Secession?

#5

Post by J.R.@A&M » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:16 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
J.R.@A&M wrote:It is South Carolina (http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-g ... 32169.html), and it is a dumber idea now than it was in 1861. Not because of the martial implications, but because of the economic ones. South Carolina would make a pretty poor country. Its currency would be weak, and its interest rates would be sky high, and its economy would regress.
Texas on the other hand would be pretty decent.. I mean heck we've done it before. lol
Better off than South Carolina, certainly. But I doubt Independent Texas would be economically as well off as Texas remaining in the United States. There are a lot of shared national expenses (defense, R&D, social security, medicare) that would probably be more expensive for Independent Texas to provide for its own citizens, assuming economies of scale in those services. And the currency/sovereign debt question is a real problem. Bond and currency markets don't give a hoot about how patriotic you or I feel.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: Secession?

#6

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:23 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
J.R.@A&M wrote:It is South Carolina (http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-g ... 32169.html), and it is a dumber idea now than it was in 1861. Not because of the martial implications, but because of the economic ones. South Carolina would make a pretty poor country. Its currency would be weak, and its interest rates would be sky high, and its economy would regress.
Texas on the other hand would be pretty decent.. I mean heck we've done it before. lol
Better off than South Carolina, certainly. But I doubt Independent Texas would be economically as well off as Texas remaining in the United States. There are a lot of shared national expenses (defense, R&D, social security, medicare) that would probably be more expensive for Independent Texas to provide for its own citizens, assuming economies of scale in those services. And the currency/sovereign debt question is a real problem. Bond and currency markets don't give a hoot about how patriotic you or I feel.
we could sell the US our oil and make billions :lol: :lol:
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Re: Secession?

#7

Post by twomillenium » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:28 pm

Not sure I would like that Texas as "we" don't own the oil.
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Re: Secession?

#8

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:35 pm

twomillenium wrote:Not sure I would like that Texas as "we" don't own the oil.
I just economically Texas could sell the oil to the US. Texas supplies the US with 1/3 of their oil. imgaine if they no longer had access to it. they'd wanna pay whatever they could to get it back. or knowing trump he'd just invade and kill everyone and take it... :roll: :roll:
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Re: Secession?

#9

Post by J.R.@A&M » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:40 pm

twomillenium wrote:Not sure I would like that Texas as "we" don't own the oil.
Right. I assume the same amount of Texas oil (owned by whomever) would be sold as before. And Texas grain, beef, cotton, etc., would continue to be exported, although farmers would have harder time financing crop production without federal farm programs. Overall, I would think the rural parts of the State would suffer more from having fewer economic development resources.
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Re: Secession?

#10

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:49 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote:
twomillenium wrote:Not sure I would like that Texas as "we" don't own the oil.
Right. I assume the same amount of Texas oil (owned by whomever) would be sold as before. And Texas grain, beef, cotton, etc., would continue to be exported, although farmers would have harder time financing crop production without federal farm programs. Overall, I would think the rural parts of the State would suffer more from having fewer economic development resources.
ah I misunderstood twomilleniums post about "we" not owning the oil. I thought he meant as in we the people not the state. :thumbs2: makes sense now
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Re: Secession?

#11

Post by SewTexas » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:32 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote:
twomillenium wrote:Not sure I would like that Texas as "we" don't own the oil.
Right. I assume the same amount of Texas oil (owned by whomever) would be sold as before. And Texas grain, beef, cotton, etc., would continue to be exported, although farmers would have harder time financing crop production without federal farm programs. Overall, I would think the rural parts of the State would suffer more from having fewer economic development resources.
rural Texas has the wind farms and the oil wells and I think, they are starting solar....they might be ok for a while. If we seceded, we'd need the rural areas to start actually farming again.
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Re: Secession?

#12

Post by Liberty » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:38 pm

SewTexas wrote:
rural Texas has the wind farms and the oil wells and I think, they are starting solar....they might be ok for a while. If we seceded, we'd need the rural areas to start actually farming again.
Much of the property used for oil wells, Wind farms and oil production is used for agricultural purposes at the same time.
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Re: Secession?

#13

Post by SewTexas » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:45 pm

Liberty wrote:
SewTexas wrote:
rural Texas has the wind farms and the oil wells and I think, they are starting solar....they might be ok for a while. If we seceded, we'd need the rural areas to start actually farming again.
Much of the property used for oil wells, Wind farms and oil production is used for agricultural purposes at the same time.
mmm, true....good property for cattle grazing and such.
Hey...we're coming up with some good stuff here....
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Re: Secession?

#14

Post by bblhd672 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:53 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote:And Texas grain, beef, cotton, etc., would continue to be exported, although farmers would have harder time financing crop production without federal farm programs. Overall, I would think the rural parts of the State would suffer more from having fewer economic development resources.
And that’s why there will never be change, people want less government unless it negatively impacts their favorite redistribution program.
[sarcasm]Why we just can’t live without big.gov holding our hands and guaranteeing our results. [\sarcasm]
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Re: Secession?

#15

Post by Scott Farkus » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:12 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:I read an article abou tNorth Carolina introducing a bill that would allow them to secede from the US should the federal govt attempt to disarm their citizens of firearms that have been legally purchased... It made me wonder if other states would do the same thing... If they try to get rid of the 2nd amendment, Texas would be allowed to secede per the treaty that was signed. One requirement in the treaty was that the constitution was to be upheld... If the govt fails to do so, do you think Texas would secede, or if one state seceded do you think others would follow suit and we end up with a 2nd civil war?
If a triggering event occurred that was sufficient to cause one state to secede, I think others would follow suit. What that event is, I don't know exactly but I could see it being some level of federal infringement on gun rights without a formal repeal of the 2nd Amendment. Depending on how this Masterpiece Bakery ruling goes, some really bad things could spiral out of control from that. And of course, the relentless federal spending and meddling almost has to reach a breaking point at some point.

imho, we are closer to a civil war than most of us want to admit.

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