Oklahoma House passes "Constitutional Carry" bill

[jerry_r60]

I'm curious how reciprocity works for people from a state with constitutional carry.

"Reciprocity" recognizes the issuance of licensure within a common standard. In the case of licensed vs. unlicensed situations, the strictest standard applies.

For instance, if an EMT-I is able to intubate in their licensing state, but a compact-state recognizes their training in all respects except the introduction of an airway, they may not intubate if practicing in the other state. This is why National Registry is becoming THE standard (or was, last time I checked, which has been a few years ). This would be similar to the push for national CC.

In the absence of a license, you is just another civvie, and are lacking special provision. IOW, if the speed limit on I35 is 70 in Texas, you can't keep cruising along when it drops at the state line, just because your home state gives you more permission(s).

Your description sounds like what i was thinking but wasn't sure if there was some provision i didn't understand. Until something broader is done, it seems that passing this in OK means OK residents can't carrying in other states. I have not read the OK bill so maybe it's addressed some way i.e. everyone gets a card or maybe it's just open carry and still have license for concealed.

No. OK just keeps issuing licenses to people who want one, especially for reciprocity. People who don't feel like getting a OK license can carry in OK, but not in states that recognize the OK license that they chose not to get.

Or they could choose to get a non-resident license from a different state. Kinda makes more sense when the license isn't needed in their home state and is only for carry in a reciprocal state. That would not help with GFSZA issues in OK, but would help with a GFSZA issue in the state that issued their non-resident license.

Yeah I am aware of the out of state option but was setting that aside and just thinking about the status of an OK resident without going out to another state for a license. If the bill for constitutional carry doesn't eliminate the state licensing option then I can see how that resolves the issue. I was thinking that with constitutional carry, the idea of a license would be eliminated but perhaps they are not doing that.

[Soccerdad1995]

I'm curious how reciprocity works for people from a state with constitutional carry.

"Reciprocity" recognizes the issuance of licensure within a common standard. In the case of licensed vs. unlicensed situations, the strictest standard applies.

For instance, if an EMT-I is able to intubate in their licensing state, but a compact-state recognizes their training in all respects except the introduction of an airway, they may not intubate if practicing in the other state. This is why National Registry is becoming THE standard (or was, last time I checked, which has been a few years ). This would be similar to the push for national CC.

In the absence of a license, you is just another civvie, and are lacking special provision. IOW, if the speed limit on I35 is 70 in Texas, you can't keep cruising along when it drops at the state line, just because your home state gives you more permission(s).

Your description sounds like what i was thinking but wasn't sure if there was some provision i didn't understand. Until something broader is done, it seems that passing this in OK means OK residents can't carrying in other states. I have not read the OK bill so maybe it's addressed some way i.e. everyone gets a card or maybe it's just open carry and still have license for concealed.

No. OK just keeps issuing licenses to people who want one, especially for reciprocity. People who don't feel like getting a OK license can carry in OK, but not in states that recognize the OK license that they chose not to get.

Or they could choose to get a non-resident license from a different state. Kinda makes more sense when the license isn't needed in their home state and is only for carry in a reciprocal state. That would not help with GFSZA issues in OK, but would help with a GFSZA issue in the state that issued their non-resident license.

Yeah I am aware of the out of state option but was setting that aside and just thinking about the status of an OK resident without going out to another state for a license. If the bill for constitutional carry doesn't eliminate the state licensing option then I can see how that resolves the issue. I was thinking that with constitutional carry, the idea of a license would be eliminated but perhaps they are not doing that.

I believe that most states who have constitutional carry, also issue licenses for reciprocity reasons (and GFSZA). I would expect the same to be true in OK.

[MadMonkey]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04 ... -bill.html


I dunno.. I'm all PRO carry (obviously). But untrained, unlicensed folks walking around with a concealed firearm... Just don't know how I feel about that.

Freedom doesn't apply only to trained, licensed people.

And plenty of trained, licensed people do idiotic things (see: DEA agent shooting himself in a classroom, a Tactical Response instructor shooting a student's truck when he stomped another student's pistol, an instructor failing to control an Uzi being fired by a 9 year old and dying for his lack of effort, etc).

If it was an issue, accidental firearm deaths would be far higher than the miniscule number that we have as compared to the number of guns we have.

[mojo84]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04 ... -bill.html


I dunno.. I'm all PRO carry (obviously). But untrained, unlicensed folks walking around with a concealed firearm... Just don't know how I feel about that.

What training have you had?

[Bushwhacker]

I don't see anything in the bill that eliminates licensing as an option. Maybe the next step is removing some off-limits places for people with a license but leaving those restrictions for the masses.

[carlson1]

Freedom doesn't apply only to trained, licensed people.

^this.

[C-dub]

I'm curious how reciprocity works for people from a state with constitutional carry.

"Reciprocity" recognizes the issuance of licensure within a common standard. In the case of licensed vs. unlicensed situations, the strictest standard applies.

For instance, if an EMT-I is able to intubate in their licensing state, but a compact-state recognizes their training in all respects except the introduction of an airway, they may not intubate if practicing in the other state. This is why National Registry is becoming THE standard (or was, last time I checked, which has been a few years ). This would be similar to the push for national CC.

In the absence of a license, you is just another civvie, and are lacking special provision. IOW, if the speed limit on I35 is 70 in Texas, you can't keep cruising along when it drops at the state line, just because your home state gives you more permission(s).

Your description sounds like what i was thinking but wasn't sure if there was some provision i didn't understand. Until something broader is done, it seems that passing this in OK means OK residents can't carrying in other states. I have not read the OK bill so maybe it's addressed some way i.e. everyone gets a card or maybe it's just open carry and still have license for concealed.

No. OK just keeps issuing licenses to people who want one, especially for reciprocity. People who don't feel like getting a OK license can carry in OK, but not in states that recognize the OK license that they chose not to get.

I think they would also be okay in other constitutional carry states if they elected to not get a license from Oklahoma.

[Keith B]

I believe that most states who have constitutional carry, also issue licenses for reciprocity reasons (and GFSZA). I would expect the same to be true in OK.

Missouri passed unlicensed concealed carry last year. Unlicensed open carry has always been legal except in some cities where they were allowed to pass ordinances. To open carry in those cities you must be licensed.

Anyway, they still issue concealed handgun permits so you can have reciprocity with other states and get the preemption on licensed open carry in all cities.

[chasfm11]

Here is an interesting twist to this situation. It is from Facebook so I'm not sure that others will be able to read it

https://www.facebook.com/Oklahoma-State ... 3Q&fref=nf

It looks like the major thrust of the opposition is budgetary, though it is couched in a public safety premise.

I didn't read it... can't use facebook at work. But when Kansas recently passed a campus carry law (after they passed constitutional carry), one of the main complaints on campuses was that they would have to install metal detectors for buildings that they intended to ban firearms and that they'd have to hire more security and police, etc.

It's a pretty weak argument considering that without the metal detectors, what was stopping a bad guy from carrying a gun through the doors, and how many people are actually going to be carrying on campus who didn't already have a CCW permit.

So my counter-point is that if they are concerned about someone bringing a weapon on campus and shooting up a basketball game or an auditorium then why hadn't they already installed the metal detectors and increased security?

Just because it's now legal for law-abiding citizens to carry guns on campus, doesn't mean that it's now any less illegal for a bad guy to shoot up the place.

Sorry that you cannot read the Facebook post.

I've extracted the part which related to the budget.

While the Oklahoma legislature appropriated an additional 4.52% of appropriations funding to the OSBI (approximately $536,000), this amount covers the pay raise for state employees that the legislature mandated through the passage of House Bill 1024xx.

In addition to the majority of the employees of the SDA being terminated as a direct result of the passage of Senate Bill 1212, an additional 40 to 60 positions across the agency will need to be cut by January 2019 in response. Losing an additional 60 positions, not counting the SDA positions, will bring the operational staffing of the agency to around 63%. The impact on public safety is unquantifiable-from the delay or inability to investigate violent crimes, to a backlog or inability to test sexual assault kits and homicide evidence, to delayed services in background checks of school employees-the effect will influence safety for Oklahoma citizens.

So in my view, this is a State agency holding the citizens of Oklahoma hostage regarding Constitutional Carry because of a dispute with the Legislature over funding. While I realize the funding is necessary for any mission, no way should part of the government be using the citizens again another part of the government.

[bigtek]

While the Oklahoma legislature appropriated an additional 4.52% of appropriations funding to the OSBI (approximately $536,000), this amount covers the pay raise for state employees that the legislature mandated through the passage of House Bill 1024xx.

In addition to the majority of the employees of the SDA being terminated as a direct result of the passage of Senate Bill 1212, an additional 40 to 60 positions across the agency will need to be cut by January 2019 in response. Losing an additional 60 positions, not counting the SDA positions, will bring the operational staffing of the agency to around 63%. The impact on public safety is unquantifiable-from the delay or inability to investigate violent crimes, to a backlog or inability to test sexual assault kits and homicide evidence, to delayed services in background checks of school employees-the effect will influence safety for Oklahoma citizens.

So in my view, this is a State agency holding the citizens of Oklahoma hostage regarding Constitutional Carry because of a dispute with the Legislature over funding. While I realize the funding is necessary for any mission, no way should part of the government be using the citizens again another part of the government.

It looks like the opponents of SB 1212 failed basic math. If there is less demand for licenses, that frees up some OSBI employees to work on other things. Therefore, it's the lack of unlicensed carry that causes "the delay or inability to investigate violent crimes, to a backlog or inability to test sexual assault kits and homicide evidence, to delayed services in background checks of school employees" and makes Oklahoma citizens less safe.

[bblhd672]

OK legislators must override.
OK voters must throw her out of office next election. Another “but” Republican.

[cyphertext]

OK legislators must override.
OK voters must throw her out of office next election. Another “but” Republican.

She is out anyway... term limits.

I sure would be canceling my membership with Oklahoma Rifle Association though... they did not support the bill.

[K.Mooneyham]

I'm kind of at a loss on this one. I live in Texas and work in Oklahoma, so I follow the 2A and firearms-related laws in both. Governor Fallin has signed a number of pro-2A/firearms bills, including permit-open carry and carry in churches, and though not firearms-related, bills that got rid of most knife restrictions plus added state preemption (and before that OK had a real patchwork of knife laws). Something was up with this one, and now I'm going to have to do some serious searching to figure out what happened.