Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

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Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#1

Post by oljames3 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:28 am

Several lessons to be learned. When one decides to carry a pistol for self-defense, one must be ready emotionally and legally to deal with the aftermath.
https://patriotgunnews.com/2018/06/13/o ... s-in-jail/
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#2

Post by ELB » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:57 am

Going only from the info presented in the link:

1. I tend to think that since the jury needed only 15 minutes to decide that the prosecution case was awful weak. As in, it should not have been brought to court.

2. The Forensic Sciences Institute (I believe) has for some time promoted the idea that a police officer involved in a shooting should be given time to process the event (at least 24 hours IIRC), meet his lawyer, and present a calm, considered statement. They present evidence that one's ability to recall details is compromised in the aftermath of a such an encounter, and I think they are right. I have read police contracts where the police union negotiated this with the city. But I see no legal or moral reason that a civilian involved in a deadly event should not be automatically afforded the same opportunity, and I wonder why I have never heard of a defense lawyer arguing the same, and presenting the Force Science Institute's research on behalf of his client to defend ill-considered statement in the immediate after math.
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#3

Post by Allons » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:00 am

Lesson 1. Do not talk to LEO's without legal representation after using a firearm in self defense.
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#4

Post by Deltaboy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:28 am

Bless his heart and Shame on the DA's office!
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#5

Post by Noggin » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:40 pm

I guess we should not be surprised that the authorities in Austin wanted to push for a conviction in this case.
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#6

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:32 am

It seems common for trials to take 1.5-3 years to play out. Once you get tied up in the legal system it feels like your life is on hold. If one is not fortunate enough to have bail money, or the usual 10% handy, one could find themselves sitting in a county jail the whole darn time. Often this practice forces innocent people to plead guilty to a lessor charge out of nothing but pure desperation.

I am glad justice was finally served here. A few years ago a video showing why one should not ever talk to cops after being arrested or involved in a self defense shooting was posted on the forum. It basically goes into how police are trained to nail you. They are not trying to help you stay out of jail. EVER!
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#7

Post by apostate » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:42 am

A bit off topic, but my father was audited by the IRS many years ago. He had his ducks in a row, but his accountant advised him to negotiate instead of fight. Agreeing to pay a few hundred in taxes and penalties would be cheaper than going to court.

As a teenager at the time, it was a valuable lesson how the so-called justice system really works.
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#8

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:42 am

I found the thread that has the links. The vids are long but well worth watching. One never knows when they will be in a bad situation after using deadly force.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17747&p=201960&hili ... ps#p201886
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#9

Post by WTR » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:54 am

I think everyone should watch either “COPs” or “Live PD“ occasionally. It really opens your eyes as to what an Officer will say to reassure you and “”hook” you up in the next second. They are not you buddy. ( this really opened my wife’s “ Polly Anna “ eyes. Many of the arrests on these shows must be thrown out for illegal searches.

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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#10

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:56 am

WTR wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:54 am
I think everyone should watch either “COPs” or “Live PD“ occasionally. It really opens your eyes as to what an Officer will say to reassure you and “”hook” you up in the next second. They are not you buddy. ( this really opened my wife’s “ Polly Anna “ eyes. Many of the arrests on these shows must be thrown out for illegal searches.
I have watched it a few times. I catch myself screaming, don't say a word as the cops trick people into incriminating themselves. "rlol"
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#11

Post by ELB » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:13 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:42 am
I found the thread that has the links. The vids are long but well worth watching. One never knows when they will be in a bad situation after using deadly force.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17747&p=201960&hili ... ps#p201886
Since the first two links in that thread are dead now, I am going to guess that they went to a talk by Prof James Duane and a talk by a police investigator George Bruch from Virginia Beach PD. If so, the whole thing is below:



Prof Duane has no doubt handled or consulted on a lot of cases where someone spoke to the police in the aftermath of a crime and had his words used against him in a subsequent prosecution.

What Prof Duane has NOT handled are cases -- in particular self-defense cases -- where someone spoke to the police in the aftermath of a crime and was NOT arrested and NOT prosecuted and in fact never needed a lawyer. How many are there? Dunno, but a significant number of the SD cases we put into the Self-Defense forum seem to fall into this category.

In the same thread Lighteningrocks posted above, there is this post from Elvis:
Elvis wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:47 am
LEO here, not an attorney, if I may give you some food for thought. Perhaps one day you find yourself in a position to have to defend yourself with a firearm and you survive. The Police arrive and survey the scene and find you with a smoking gun in your hand and another person down with a gun shot. Newsflash, you have committed a crime in the State of Texas (Agg. Assault or Murder). If the first words out of your mouth are “I want my attorney” then you will be going to jail and booked. I am sure your attorney will be pleased that you did not “incriminate” yourself and he can then formulate a defense that fits the evidence, as long as your checks clear. Juries tend to take a dim view of defendants that “Lawyer Up” as they appear guilty and uncooperative as if they were hiding something.
Try this instead. If you were in a self defense shooting and LEO arrives and asks you what happened, tell them in general terms what the sequence of events were. Give them something to start the investigation toward a Justified shoot. Do not immediately give details like how many shots were fired by you or what words were exchanged. Tell the Police that you do not want to give a formal statement until you have a chance to contact your attorney and by all means contact you attorney as soon as possible. The Police will be able to take your statement in a day or two after you have calmed down and you will remember the events better. At least give us a chance to send you home to your family if things are looking good for you. The standard “I was in fear of my safety and had to shoot to defend myself” or “I was attacked and shot in self defense” will go in the initial report along with the Officers observations of your behavior and mindset.
Just an opinion from someone that has been to more than a few scenes…
Charles Cotton follows up with a post stating that this is very similar to what Charles presents in his deadly force seminar (at least in 2008).
John Farnam, a longtime SD trainer and police officer, presents very similar information in his courses.

Mr. Stephens (the former security guard acquitted of murder) may have been well served to have some of this information prior to his encounter.
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#12

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:34 pm

ELB wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:13 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:42 am
I found the thread that has the links. The vids are long but well worth watching. One never knows when they will be in a bad situation after using deadly force.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17747&p=201960&hili ... ps#p201886
Since the first two links in that thread are dead now, I am going to guess that they went to a talk by Prof James Duane and a talk by a police investigator George Bruch from Virginia Beach PD. If so, the whole thing is below:



Prof Duane has no doubt handled or consulted on a lot of cases where someone spoke to the police in the aftermath of a crime and had his words used against him in a subsequent prosecution.

What Prof Duane has NOT handled are cases -- in particular self-defense cases -- where someone spoke to the police in the aftermath of a crime and was NOT arrested and NOT prosecuted and in fact never needed a lawyer. How many are there? Dunno, but a significant number of the SD cases we put into the Self-Defense forum seem to fall into this category.

In the same thread Lighteningrocks posted above, there is this post from Elvis:
Elvis wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:47 am
LEO here, not an attorney, if I may give you some food for thought. Perhaps one day you find yourself in a position to have to defend yourself with a firearm and you survive. The Police arrive and survey the scene and find you with a smoking gun in your hand and another person down with a gun shot. Newsflash, you have committed a crime in the State of Texas (Agg. Assault or Murder). If the first words out of your mouth are “I want my attorney” then you will be going to jail and booked. I am sure your attorney will be pleased that you did not “incriminate” yourself and he can then formulate a defense that fits the evidence, as long as your checks clear. Juries tend to take a dim view of defendants that “Lawyer Up” as they appear guilty and uncooperative as if they were hiding something.
Try this instead. If you were in a self defense shooting and LEO arrives and asks you what happened, tell them in general terms what the sequence of events were. Give them something to start the investigation toward a Justified shoot. Do not immediately give details like how many shots were fired by you or what words were exchanged. Tell the Police that you do not want to give a formal statement until you have a chance to contact your attorney and by all means contact you attorney as soon as possible. The Police will be able to take your statement in a day or two after you have calmed down and you will remember the events better. At least give us a chance to send you home to your family if things are looking good for you. The standard “I was in fear of my safety and had to shoot to defend myself” or “I was attacked and shot in self defense” will go in the initial report along with the Officers observations of your behavior and mindset.
Just an opinion from someone that has been to more than a few scenes…
Charles Cotton follows up with a post stating that this is very similar to what Charles presents in his deadly force seminar (at least in 2008).
John Farnam, a longtime SD trainer and police officer, presents very similar information in his courses.

Mr. Stephens (the former security guard acquitted of murder) may have been well served to have some of this information prior to his encounter.
Yes. Thank You. I was having to do some work and did not check links. :clapping:
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Re: Austin Off-Duty Security Guard Found Not Guilty After 1.5 Years

#13

Post by der Teufel » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:55 am

ELB wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:57 am
Going only from the info presented in the link:

1. I tend to think that since the jury needed only 15 minutes to decide that the prosecution case was awful weak. As in, it should not have been brought to court.
Actually, the article said the jury deliberated three hours on Thursday, and then came back for another 15 minutes on Friday before deciding a verdict.

I certainly agree however, that one should probably make only minimal statements before contacting an attorney in circumstances such as these.

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