FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

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apostate
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#76

Post by apostate » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:45 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:08 pm
Where are the proponents of call 911 and be a good witness?
That's exactly what I would do if I saw something like this happen... after getting to cover and/or creating distance between myself and the belligerents.

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LAYGO
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#77

Post by LAYGO » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:45 pm

4-5 seconds. That's the time from the shove to the shot.

I can't imagine there's sufficient time to know if the threat will continue. McGlockton has already shown he'll be aggressive with out provocation. McGlocktoncontinue to laud over Drejka when he was on the ground. I don't know how disorienting the shove, impact with the ground (did his head hit?), etc would be.

Then add this all occurred in 4-5 seconds.

(Careful, spoiler alerts for the movie Sully below)

The arm chair quarterbacking reminds me of the scene from Sully (the pilot who successfully landed a plane on the Hudson river) when the NTSB believed Sully could've successfully landed the plane at one of two airports nearby. What the NTSB didn't take into consideration was the time it took to decide if the test pilots could get the engines restarted, go thru the disaster plan etc. The test pilots immediately making a turn for either airport was successful, but taking the time to get oriented (in the movie they made the test pilots 35secs before making a decision to fly towards an airport), then they realized it wasn't plausible to make it to either of the airports.

That was a plane with 155 people on it making a quick decision in minutes. This shooting was FOUR TO FIVE SECONDS. I'm sure it seemed like longer in the moment, but I'm not sure. I don't like the shoot personally, so many wrong decisions leading up to it, but once deadly force was justified, it was 4-5 seconds.
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LAYGO
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#78

Post by LAYGO » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:02 pm

There's a 2nd part to the article which touches on a lot the aspects of what people were talking about:
- parking illegally
- confronting the illegal parker
- shoving someone to the ground

https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsaf ... _170314660
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#79

Post by mojo84 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:45 am

apostate wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:45 pm
mojo84 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:08 pm
Where are the proponents of call 911 and be a good witness?
That's exactly what I would do if I saw something like this happen... after getting to cover and/or creating distance between myself and the belligerents.
My point is, where are all the people that typically say the shooter should have just called 911 to report the parking violation and then been a good witness. Instead, the shooter played cop by confronting someone that broke a law and then ended up shooting a guy.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#80

Post by WTR » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:53 am

How would every one see this incident had it been a simple assault. Would the shooter been justified in protecting himself? The shooter was blind sided by a person he had not even seen before. He wasn’t going to shoot or even brandish his gun to the woman he was arguing with.

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#81

Post by Paladin » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:16 pm

rotor wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:02 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:43 pm
rotor wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:08 pm
Old guy (shooter) turns out is 47 which I don't classify as old. When you have a history of threatening people with a gun because of a handicap parking violation and then eventually shoot and kill one of them you are guilty of murder as far as I am concerned. Nobody can convince me that this crazy shooter was not guilty of murder. Give him a chance and he will be doing the same thing again. This is not stand your ground. This is incite and kill because you can.
Very much disagree. The "history" you are taking as fact is as quoted by low life that feel they have a right to park in handicapped spaces. Their words are self-serving at best. I have shown Jacobs to be a liar. If Drejka had "incite and kill" all masterfully planned as you suggest, Drejka would not have ended up attacked from behind and only drawn his weapon while laying on the ground. If he wanted to kill McGlockton, Drejka would have shot McGlockton more than once. Drejka fired one shot. Single gunshot wounds are often survivable. Drejka let McGlockton retreat. Drejka never layed a hand on Jacobs.

Those are the facts. This was a dispute that ended badly. Don't let liars and fake news make you believe differently.
The shooter threatened a guy named Kelly for the same type of incident in the past. One does not patrol handicap parking spots, fight with people that are illegally parked and threaten to shoot. Neither of us know what is in his heart but when one repeatedly does the same thing and threaten people with a firearm I look at them as deranged. Obviously the DA in this case agreed with the shooter but if it looks like a duck and you know the rest. I don't know what liars you are talking about.
Kelly was another guy who liked to park illegally in handicapped spots and argued with Drejka when Drejka said something about it. Drejka was not prosecuted for anything and Kelly is quiet on the details. Who knows exactly what happened? It is clear that Kelly isn't going to confess he threatened to beat up or kill Drejka... but it wouldn't be out of character for a criminal to do so.

Please read the articles posted. Jacob's claimed the handicapped spot was the only place she could park... of course the video shows there is plenty of parking available. Jacob's is a liar. Kelly is a confessed troublemaker and honestly I don't believe him either. Do you think a guy who would do what Kelly did would think twice about lying? Don't trust Kelly's statement blindly. Take it for what it is, a self serving statement.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#82

Post by rotor » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:26 pm

Paladin wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:16 pm
rotor wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:02 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:43 pm
rotor wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:08 pm
Old guy (shooter) turns out is 47 which I don't classify as old. When you have a history of threatening people with a gun because of a handicap parking violation and then eventually shoot and kill one of them you are guilty of murder as far as I am concerned. Nobody can convince me that this crazy shooter was not guilty of murder. Give him a chance and he will be doing the same thing again. This is not stand your ground. This is incite and kill because you can.
Very much disagree. The "history" you are taking as fact is as quoted by low life that feel they have a right to park in handicapped spaces. Their words are self-serving at best. I have shown Jacobs to be a liar. If Drejka had "incite and kill" all masterfully planned as you suggest, Drejka would not have ended up attacked from behind and only drawn his weapon while laying on the ground. If he wanted to kill McGlockton, Drejka would have shot McGlockton more than once. Drejka fired one shot. Single gunshot wounds are often survivable. Drejka let McGlockton retreat. Drejka never layed a hand on Jacobs.

Those are the facts. This was a dispute that ended badly. Don't let liars and fake news make you believe differently.
The shooter threatened a guy named Kelly for the same type of incident in the past. One does not patrol handicap parking spots, fight with people that are illegally parked and threaten to shoot. Neither of us know what is in his heart but when one repeatedly does the same thing and threaten people with a firearm I look at them as deranged. Obviously the DA in this case agreed with the shooter but if it looks like a duck and you know the rest. I don't know what liars you are talking about.
Kelly was another guy who liked to park illegally in handicapped spots and argued with Drejka when Drejka said something about it. Drejka was not prosecuted for anything and Kelly is quiet on the details. Who knows exactly what happened? It is clear that Kelly isn't going to confess he threatened to beat up or kill Drejka... but it wouldn't be out of character for a criminal to do so.

Please read the articles posted. Jacob's claimed the handicapped spot was the only place she could park... of course the video shows there is plenty of parking available. Jacob's is a liar. Kelly is a confessed troublemaker and honestly I don't believe him either. Do you think a guy who would do what Kelly did would think twice about lying? Don't trust Kelly's statement blindly. Take it for what it is, a self serving statement.
I guess we will never know for sure. We each have our opinion. We each think we are right. Neither of us I hope are going to be armed handicapped parking guards. Something big time wrong with Drejka in my opinion. Not just a normal 47 year old man. Too quick to pull his gun and shoot, at least in my opinion. No business patrolling handicap parking spots with a gun. But, DA or whatever let him go free and that's the way it is.

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#83

Post by Paladin » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:44 pm

rotor wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:26 pm
Paladin wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:16 pm
rotor wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:02 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:43 pm
rotor wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:08 pm
Old guy (shooter) turns out is 47 which I don't classify as old. When you have a history of threatening people with a gun because of a handicap parking violation and then eventually shoot and kill one of them you are guilty of murder as far as I am concerned. Nobody can convince me that this crazy shooter was not guilty of murder. Give him a chance and he will be doing the same thing again. This is not stand your ground. This is incite and kill because you can.
Very much disagree. The "history" you are taking as fact is as quoted by low life that feel they have a right to park in handicapped spaces. Their words are self-serving at best. I have shown Jacobs to be a liar. If Drejka had "incite and kill" all masterfully planned as you suggest, Drejka would not have ended up attacked from behind and only drawn his weapon while laying on the ground. If he wanted to kill McGlockton, Drejka would have shot McGlockton more than once. Drejka fired one shot. Single gunshot wounds are often survivable. Drejka let McGlockton retreat. Drejka never layed a hand on Jacobs.

Those are the facts. This was a dispute that ended badly. Don't let liars and fake news make you believe differently.
The shooter threatened a guy named Kelly for the same type of incident in the past. One does not patrol handicap parking spots, fight with people that are illegally parked and threaten to shoot. Neither of us know what is in his heart but when one repeatedly does the same thing and threaten people with a firearm I look at them as deranged. Obviously the DA in this case agreed with the shooter but if it looks like a duck and you know the rest. I don't know what liars you are talking about.
Kelly was another guy who liked to park illegally in handicapped spots and argued with Drejka when Drejka said something about it. Drejka was not prosecuted for anything and Kelly is quiet on the details. Who knows exactly what happened? It is clear that Kelly isn't going to confess he threatened to beat up or kill Drejka... but it wouldn't be out of character for a criminal to do so.

Please read the articles posted. Jacob's claimed the handicapped spot was the only place she could park... of course the video shows there is plenty of parking available. Jacob's is a liar. Kelly is a confessed troublemaker and honestly I don't believe him either. Do you think a guy who would do what Kelly did would think twice about lying? Don't trust Kelly's statement blindly. Take it for what it is, a self serving statement.
I guess we will never know for sure. We each have our opinion. We each think we are right. Neither of us I hope are going to be armed handicapped parking guards. Something big time wrong with Drejka in my opinion. Not just a normal 47 year old man. Too quick to pull his gun and shoot, at least in my opinion. No business patrolling handicap parking spots with a gun. But, DA or whatever let him go free and that's the way it is.
I agree with you that Drejka should not be patrolling handicapped parking and that he needs to re-evaluate his behavior. But it looks to me like he is a guy who really does not like selfish people who illegally park in handicapped spaces. That being the case Drejka should be reporting that to the store management or the police. It would have saved him from being knocked to the ground, killing a guy, sued, and having his reputation attacked in the media.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#84

Post by mojo84 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:58 pm

I'm a strong believer in giving the cop or LTC holder the benefit of the doubt. However, in this case, I do not believe it was his place to chew the woman out for illegally parking or to shoot the person that came to her defense. If this happened on the road it would be considered a road rage incident and he would not get the benefit of the doubt. He instigated this by his actions and he went way to far. Does that mean the lady wasn't in the wrong for illegally parking, Absolutely not. She was wrong but it isn't his place to enforce the law.

Talk about taking a Batman license to the extreme. He is 47 years old. He is not an old fragile man and he is old enough to know better.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#85

Post by philip964 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:09 pm

Saw this on ABC news big screen. The guy is shot at the point he turning to walk away. So it seemed on the big screen.

The news called it a parking dispute. Only at the very end did they mention the wife was parked in handicapped space and never said she was illegally parked.

They also emphasized the white on black killing.

I’m still thinking the DA failed to file charges in order to get the law changed.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#86

Post by RGVshooter » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:32 pm

I've seen the video and personally I think the shooter should be charged. Sure the guy shoved him to the ground, but then he backed up as soon as the gun came out. There was no reason to shoot.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#87

Post by apostate » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:38 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:45 am
apostate wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:45 pm
mojo84 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:08 pm
Where are the proponents of call 911 and be a good witness?
That's exactly what I would do if I saw something like this happen... after getting to cover and/or creating distance between myself and the belligerents.
My point is, where are all the people that typically say the shooter should have just called 911 to report the parking violation and then been a good witness. Instead, the shooter played cop by confronting someone that broke a law and then ended up shooting a guy.
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What a joke we've become

#88

Post by flechero » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:02 am

We really suck as a community of 2A and CHL/LTC brethren. We are a house divided, in the saddest sense.

I didn't particularly "like" the shoot, but we still don't have the relevant facts to judge him. I see a huge gap in what's legal vs what we think is good or right...

For every one of you high horsers, there are always those that ride higher... and if you ever face an attack that you defend yourself from, well baby, you better strap in for the keyboard commando lynch mob!! :banghead: Guilty until proven innocent... nice job, guys.






(Sorry Charles)


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Re: What a joke we've become

#89

Post by Rob72 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:21 am

flechero wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:02 am
We really suck as a community of 2A and CHL/LTC brethren. We are a house divided, in the saddest sense.

I didn't particularly "like" the shoot, but we still don't have the relevant facts to judge him. I see a huge gap in what's legal vs what we think is good or right...

For every one of you high horsers, there are always those that ride higher... and if you ever face an attack that you defend yourself from, well baby, you better strap in for the keyboard commando lynch mob!! :banghead: Guilty until proven innocent... nice job, guys.






(Sorry Charles)
We do. As a LTC/CHL holder you have the duty(legal, as well as moral) to not engage in behaviors which directly exacerbate an interpersonal interaction. Period. Now, the Legal standard may allow you to squeek by on some things. The rest is between you & God. If this man is "cleared", and he's good with that, I have to question his mental and ethical suitability for LTC. It was profoundly bad judgement (which he apparently has a history of), no different that doing an evening of tequila shots while carrying.

There is NO scenario where an armed individual should persist in confronting someone else over a parking space. If one must, suggest that they should move. If they don't, walk away, and if the absolute compulsion to right this egregious wrong is present, call PD. Because we never know what another person's behavior/reaction may be, our initiatives must be very conservative and unemotional when dealing with someone/something that is in no way an immediate threat.

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Re: What a joke we've become

#90

Post by mojo84 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:09 am

flechero wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:02 am
We really suck as a community of 2A and CHL/LTC brethren. We are a house divided, in the saddest sense.

I didn't particularly "like" the shoot, but we still don't have the relevant facts to judge him. I see a huge gap in what's legal vs what we think is good or right...

For every one of you high horsers, there are always those that ride higher... and if you ever face an attack that you defend yourself from, well baby, you better strap in for the keyboard commando lynch mob!! :banghead: Guilty until proven innocent... nice job, guys.






(Sorry Charles)


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