FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

[PriestTheRunner]

...
However witnesses has already stated this was not "a discussion," the shooter was YELLING at her in front of two small children and has a history of doing so using very racial and inflammatory language.
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In an event like this, with the inflamed racial relations, what witnesses say was spoken between them really doesn't matter.
Or have we forgotten "Hands Up Don't Shoot", the MAGA hat 'witnesses' among other witness statements that turned out to be completely false.

Either way, both sides made mistakes but the deceased initiated violence. Before that it was merely verbal.

[Paladin]

Did I understand the woman was in the car?

I have waited in handicapped spots tow away zones etc. when parking was limited, figuring if a handicapped driver ever approached I could quickly move. Was I unreasonable?

I don't believe you were unreasonable... but there was plenty of parking available in that parking lot and Jacobs refused to move and then got out of her car to confront the man asking her to move. While there is no audio recording, I suspect Jacobs gave the signal for her boyfriend to attack Drejka.

[apostate]

Crotchety old seniors may be a little safer in Florida today.

Dad is a crotchety old senior in Florida so I'll look on the bright side.

[Soccerdad1995]

Yes, I understand that a lot of people's wives would not be parking in a handicapped spot. So say she made an illegal lane change or committed some other infraction instead, and was followed into the parking lot by a guy who decided to berate her as you were walking out of the store. What would you do at that point?

The specific infraction doesn't really matter. It was an infraction. The police could issue a ticket. But it doesn't justify involvement from a random citizen, IMHO. And it especially does not justify involvement from a random citizen who happens to be legally armed with a concealed weapon. The presence of the legally carried concealed weapon turns a normal altercation into a potentially deadly one. This alone should entice a LTC holder to practice de-escalation of any conflict. De-escalation here was extremely easy for the shooter. Upon seeing the car parked in a handicapped spot, there was no conflict. Do nothing and it stays as de-escalated as it can get. Instead he initiated the confrontation. I don't think that is going to be a positive for him.

Answering my question above, if the man was just yelling at my wife and kids and was not using force, I would have to assess whether we could safely get out of there if I simply entered the vehicle and had my wife drive off. If I thought the guy might be armed, this becomes a less viable option. In that case, I would try to move to a point where I had a clear shot and would then order him to immediately step away from the vehicle. My gun would be holstered, but I would be ready to draw and fire if he forced me to do so. At that point, I would be in active mode of attempting de-escalation while being ready in case the aggressor chose to continue to escalate the conflict that he had initiated.

[Paladin]

I don't think that is going to be a positive for him.

Truthfully it already didn't go well for him as he got knocked to the ground and is going to be facing a lawsuit.

I think this event shows a timeless conflict scenario of a "high conscientiousness" individual vs. "low conscientiousness" individual(s).

Conscientiousness: A 'Big Five' Personality Trait

Criminals are typically low conscientiousness, impulsive, and not considerate of others. But just because other people are disorderly and inconsiderate, does not mean that we need to set the world straight. If LTC's want to do something in these sorts of "traffic scenarios", report it to the authorities and move on.

[PriestTheRunner]

I'm going to throw in a prediction...

Girlfriend texted the boyfriend in the store something along the lines of "Come kick this guys you-know-what".

The grand jury will no-bill the guy on criminal charges. It will go to civil trial as immunity doesn't apply until after it can be ruled on (if I understand civil immunity laws correctly). This one is going to go to trial in civil court where the defense will request the judge subpoena the text messages of that morning. She might be charged with something in the end.

Bad decisions all around.

[oljames3]

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I have waited in handicapped spots tow away zones etc. when parking was limited, figuring if a handicapped driver ever approached I could quickly move. Was I unreasonable?

Yes, you were unreasonable.

By unlawfully parking or standing in a spot that the Texas Transportation Code (TC 7, chapter 681) refers to as "Privileged Parking", you have, in addition to committing an offense, potentially needlessly inconvenienced a person who was authorized to park there. As a 70% disabled vet, I have special plates on both of our vehicles. My van has the international symbol on my Texas Disabled Veteran plates, but my wife's car has only the Texas Disabled Veteran plates. Many Texans do not recognize the Disabled Veteran plates. While driving my wife's car, I have been ticketed once (by a civilian authorized to do so in Travis County) and accosted once by folks who did not recognize that I was authorized by Texas to park in Privileged Parking.

The county, upon checking the vehicle registration, did not even enter the ticket into the system but simply tore it up. When accosted, I successfully employed the deescalation techniques I have learned and practiced.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

Active Self Protection review of the video footage

https://youtu.be/8TBXz2_o0KM

[mojo84]

Active Self Protection review of the video footage

https://youtu.be/8TBXz2_o0KM

That's a good analysis.

[srothstein]

(by a civilian authorized to do so in Travis County)

I thought I should emphasize this since most people do not know it is the law in Texas. Transportation Code section 681.0101 allows any political subdivision (city, county, school district, other special district) to appoint volunteers to enforce the handicapped parking laws. They cannot get paid, are not police officers, and are specifically forbidden from carrying firearms while doing this (I think someone foresaw this exact scenario when they decided to pass this).

I have no idea of Florida law, but they have a lot of similar laws to us - some start here and some, like CHL, start there. It would not surprise me if they allow this to find that the shooter in this case was a parking enforcement volunteer.

[Soccerdad1995]

(by a civilian authorized to do so in Travis County)

I thought I should emphasize this since most people do not know it is the law in Texas. Transportation Code section 681.0101 allows any political subdivision (city, county, school district, other special district) to appoint volunteers to enforce the handicapped parking laws. They cannot get paid, are not police officers, and are specifically forbidden from carrying firearms while doing this (I think someone foresaw this exact scenario when they decided to pass this).

I have no idea of Florida law, but they have a lot of similar laws to us - some start here and some, like CHL, start there. It would not surprise me if they allow this to find that the shooter in this case was a parking enforcement volunteer.

If Florida does have a similar law, and if the shooter in this case was such a volunteer, then someone erred in appointing him to that job, IMHO. Having the ability to issue a citation would make the verbal confrontation completely unnecessary, since he could have just written down the cars' license plate, maybe snapped a picture or two with his phone, and he would be assured that this lawbreaker would get her due. A verbal confrontation is complete and total overkill in that case.

The need to lay into this driver, and apparently others, makes more sense if the shooter felt that he was otherwise not empowered to actually rectify the wrong that he was seeing. Still an extreme lack of good judgment, IMHO, especially since he was armed. But at least a bit more understandable.

[BBYC]

Normal people don't provoke an argument over a parking violation and threaten to use deadly force.

You don't like his behavior. Thats obvious. It's also obvious he doesn't like people parking illegally in handicap parking spaces. He had as much right to criticize her parking as you do to criticize his behavior.

[bblhd672]

Normal people don't provoke an argument over a parking violation and threaten to use deadly force.

You don't like his behavior. Thats obvious. It's also obvious he doesn't like people parking illegally in handicap parking spaces. He had as much right to criticize her parking as you do to criticize his behavior.

No one has a right to threaten to use deadly force over a parking violation.

[Lynyrd]

Normal people don't provoke an argument over a parking violation and threaten to use deadly force.

You don't like his behavior. Thats obvious. It's also obvious he doesn't like people parking illegally in handicap parking spaces. He had as much right to criticize her parking as you do to criticize his behavior.

No one has a right to threaten to use deadly force over a parking violation.

[BBYC]

Normal people don't provoke an argument over a parking violation and threaten to use deadly force.

You don't like his behavior. Thats obvious. It's also obvious he doesn't like people parking illegally in handicap parking spaces. He had as much right to criticize her parking as you do to criticize his behavior.

No one has a right to threaten to use deadly force over a parking violation.

That's true and in the video I saw, the guy who did got shot.