FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

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dlh
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#31

Post by dlh » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:03 am

Maxwell wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:55 am
Differences in the responses on different forums are interesting. On one national forum (full of great people IMO) the opinion is heavily weighted towards the stand-your-ground laws and this being a good shoot. On this forum it is weighted much more towards the opinion that the shooter provoked the situation.

Just an observation. YMMV

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#32

Post by mojo84 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:17 am

When we mention we can't hear what the guy that did the shoving say to the guy on the ground, we also can't hear what the parking "cop" said to the woman in the car.

Without hearing the actual words and tone, we can only go off of what we see and what the witnesses say. It appeared to me the guy that got shot was backing off when he was shot. That does not favor of the shooter.

If you watch the shooters head at the first of the video and his hand gestures, you can tell it isn't just a "discussion". He is chewing her out. Here is a question. If you were to walk out of the store and see some guy standing there chewing out your wife or girlfriend, how would you have responded? Would you not go into an immediate defend your loved one mode?

I'm not advocating one way or the other but it seems some just want to say it's a good or legal shoot just because of "stand your ground", the woman was in the wrong for parking there and the guy shoved the other guy. There are enough variables in this one it makes it hard for me to decide exactly where I stand. I can tell you now, I would not have responded with a polite "excuse me sir" if I came out and someone was laying into my wife with a verbal tongue lashing.
Last edited by mojo84 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#33

Post by Rob72 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:24 am

Unless I misread, Drejka is 47, not 60-some. He does sit there for a moment, after the shooting, but gets up without apparently using his arms to leverage himself up-knees, hips & back are in good shape.

He has a firearm, but is totally unaware of dude walking up to him. He's having an "animated" conversation with the woman, not with the man and woman, immediately after they park, or after the man comes back to the car. Does not speak well to his decision-making process, in any respect.

May be "legal," it is not, "good."

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#34

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 am

flechero wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am
Big difference between a "good shoot" and a "legal shoot" I think our crowd leans more towards only calling a "good shoot," good when discussing these vs. just going with the legal aspect.

Either way, attacking a senior citizen for talking to your girlfriend is criminal... and I feel sorry for the kid - who now only has 1 crappy parent.
Plenty of blame to go around on all 3 sides.
- girlfriend didn't have to park there, other slots were available. she could have rolled up her window, fired up car and left any time.
- boyfriend chose to physically assault, from behind an older smaller man. It can be argued that the physical disparity made the attack potentially deadly force. BF could have just said "Woman we're leaving, start pulling out" and got in car after. Given that this is Florida, I'm sure that this is far from the first time either has had the 'n' word used on them, if that was the case. Sticks and stones......
- Shooter is apparently self appointed foul mouthed volunteer parking police. If you purposely go looking for trouble while carry a gun, you're probably going to find it...

- I'm sure that GF will have a new baby daddy soon, probably before the funeral is over. so the kid will STILL have TWO crappy parents.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#35

Post by mojo84 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 am

This is the kind of situation where I wonder if some feel like a pseudo cop because they have a gun and carry permit. I do not see this type of situation the same as when someone comes to the aid of another and is then labeled a mall ninja, self-appointed cop or wannabe.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#36

Post by bblhd672 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:45 am

At the convenience store Friday, customers filed in and out, buying cigarettes, lottery tickets and sodas, many of them familiar with details of the shooting. Mustafa Hashen, a clerk and witness, said both men were regulars.

It wasn’t the first time he saw Drejka in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot.

The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.

"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."
Normal people don't provoke an argument over a parking violation and threaten to use deadly force.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#37

Post by jonmo1 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:01 am

flechero wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am
and I feel sorry for the kid - who now only has 1 crappy parent.
1 crappy parent is better than 2 crappy parents.
Opens the door for a good step parent.
(This is not offered as justification for the shoot, just humor)

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#38

Post by Middle Age Russ » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:05 am

If you were to walk out of the store and see some guy standing there chewing out your wife or girlfriend, how would you have responded? Would you not go into an immediate defend your loved one mode?
I would definitely come to a measured defense of my wife if someone was chewing her out. On the other hand, my wife would not be parked in a handicapped space -- even if the car was tagged appropriately -- unless she or a passenger in the car was significantly handicapped. I say a measured defense for a reason. Words are, generally speaking, no reason to inject force into a situation. My response would have likewise been verbal rather than a use of force.

This incident went off the rails when a thug used force to make his point. While I don't see anything "right" about the actions of the shooter, particularly when acting in a verbally aggressive manner to initiate this whole confrontation, he appeared to be escalating no further until force was introduced by the now-dead boyfriend. Like so many cases, this incident was preventable by either party. Neither of them, in that moment, acted in a measured manner that might have prevented this loss of life and the aftermath.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#39

Post by Allons » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:29 am

Middle Age Russ wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:05 am
If you were to walk out of the store and see some guy standing there chewing out your wife or girlfriend, how would you have responded? Would you not go into an immediate defend your loved one mode?
I would definitely come to a measured defense of my wife if someone was chewing her out. On the other hand, my wife would not be parked in a handicapped space -- even if the car was tagged appropriately -- unless she or a passenger in the car was significantly handicapped. I say a measured defense for a reason. Words are, generally speaking, no reason to inject force into a situation. My response would have likewise been verbal rather than a use of force.

This incident went off the rails when a thug used force to make his point. While I don't see anything "right" about the actions of the shooter, particularly when acting in a verbally aggressive manner to initiate this whole confrontation, he appeared to be escalating no further until force was introduced by the now-dead boyfriend. Like so many cases, this incident was preventable by either party. Neither of them, in that moment, acted in a measured manner that might have prevented this loss of life and the aftermath.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#40

Post by Lynyrd » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:28 pm

To me the tragedy here is that a very good law is now under criticism due to a very unfortunate event that should never have happened. Both the shooter and the decedent were guilty of provoking and escalating hostilities. Over what? Illegal parking? Why would anyone.....

But now a law that was intended to protect people under attack is being hailed as "controversial." If Florida overturns this law, it will be a sad day for all citizens who find themselves under attack.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#41

Post by Flightmare » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:47 pm

Lynyrd wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:28 pm
To me the tragedy here is that a very good law is now under criticism due to a very unfortunate event that should never have happened. Both the shooter and the decedent were guilty of provoking and escalating hostilities. Over what? Illegal parking? Why would anyone.....

But now a law that was intended to protect people under attack is being hailed as "controversial." If Florida overturns this law, it will be a sad day for all citizens who find themselves under attack.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#42

Post by LTUME1978 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:44 pm

Maxwell wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:44 am
LTUME1978 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:35 pm
jonmo1 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:03 pm
No, he was not standing his ground. It was more like revenge for getting pushed down. The guy was backing away after the gun came out. If he had made an aggressive move forward then it would be justified.
I’d say 2nd or 3rd degree murder, certainly not first degree.
I beg to differ on standing his ground. I watched the video and that is eye opening. Having a discussion on illegally parking in a handicapped space does not justify the force that was applied. That was no gentle shove. I am 62 and if someone I did not know walked up and shoved me to the ground that aggressively, my pistol would be out. If that gentleman was not moving quickly to get well away from me, I would probably have shot as well (remember the 21 foot rule?) as he could close very quickly from such a short distance and inflict even more harm/injury/possibly death. When one is a senior citizen, an extremely hard jolt like that and/or the resulting impact to the pavement can cause serious injury and possibly be life threatening if ones head hits the pavement hard. You may be bullet proof when you are young but wait till you get older. You will find things change.
If it was a discussion, I'd agree. I'm almost 60 and much more fragile than when younger also. A shove like that could do serious damage. However witnesses has already stated this was not "a discussion," the shooter was YELLING at her in front of two small children and has a history of doing so using very racial and inflammatory language. And yes, husband/BF was backing away from the confrontation after the shove when he was shot. I think, IMO, the sheriff knows this and most likely believes it was a provoked situation also. But by the letter of their state law it may have been legal.

LTUME, I doubt you or I would have been yelling at people for parking in a handicap space, much less so doing it repeatedly.

If this happened in Texas I would hope there'd be a grand jury inquiry to determine charges.
I can only speculate as to why he may have been yelling. The lady had her window rolled up? The A/C was on? She may have turned the music up so she would not have to hear him tell her that what she was doing was wrong and he knew that so he raised his voice? I wasn't there, just a guess. I have no idea what he was saying either (your comment about racial and inflammatory language).

If I needed the handicap space for myself or a family member, I would have probably asked the lady to move the car. Based on what I see here in my area, there are a lot of "special" folks that park inappropriately in a handicapped spot (no sticker or license plate). I see one lady that has a handicapped sticker and parks in that spot at the rec. center then goes in and does at least an hour of intense exercise most days. She is a nice lady but having a handicap sticker and working out like that don't add up. I can understand how people who need that handicapped spot get upset with the folks that abuse that. My big pet peeve here in Houston is all those "special" drivers that don't want to wait in line at exits off of the freeway and drive up to the front of the line to cut as they are so much better than all the rest of us that do wait in line. I wish I had a Star Trek "tractor beam" (or whatever they called it) to lock onto those cars and set them upside down on the side of the road.

Anyway, back to this issue. Several folks said they would do the same thing to defend their wife. I am not married but if I were and my wife was driving, I would ask her not to park in the handicapped spot (traffic law violation). She could drop me off at the front of the store and I would find the car once I was finished in the store. If she did park in the handicapped spot, a more appropriate response when exiting the store would have been to walk up to the guy and apologize for her parking there and that we would move the car as quickly as possible. The guy that was fussing at her did not appear to break the law, she did. The boyfriend had no business reacting the way he did and greatly escalated things by aggressively shoving the guy to the ground rather than apologizing for what his wife did.

As far as shooting, I can't read anyone's mind so I don't know what the boyfriend would have done. He may have taken a step back after he saw the gun but who knows what he would have done if he had not been shot? I don't and no one else does either. If I think my life is at risk, I will protect myself. The boyfriend escalated things to that level with his action to assault the guy that shot him. I said it before and will say it again, he was much closer than 21 feet from the shooter. Very few can react quick enough in response to someone that close attacking.

The idea of pulling the gun and not shooting is faulty logic in my mind. My pistol would stay holstered until needed. My hand may be on the grip but it is not coming out until needed. Friends of mine had a painful experience. Not exactly the same but will give you an idea of what can happen if you pull a pistol. She got in a road rage incident with another lady while driving home from work (other lady was very aggressive). A few traffic signals down the road, they parted ways. The other lady went home, called the police and reported that my friend pointed a gun at her (her husband is HPD and she does have her CHL/was carrying but did not point the gun at anyone). She was arrested by Galveston County and $50,000.00 in legal fees later, it was over. While she never had reason to pull a pistol and never did (I believe her). I decided that my pistol isn't coming out just to try to deescalate the situation. Good intentions can result in very expensive legal fees or worse. Others can do whatever they think is best.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#43

Post by rotor » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:18 pm

The fact that this is not the first time the shooter has been involved in the SAME type of thing before means nothing? He got in a fight with another person and threatened to shoot them for the same parking violation. The guy is a nut case. Jail is where he belongs.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#44

Post by philip964 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:40 pm

If this type of thing happens a lot, Florida will change their laws. I’m almost suspecting the reason he wasn’t charged was to create that situation. To me with the video, let a jury decide.

Secondly it makes it unlikely other states will consider protecting righteous shooters.

And much less likely liberal states will ever change.

Did I understand the woman was in the car?

I have waited in handicapped spots tow away zones etc. when parking was limited, figuring if a handicapped driver ever approached I could quickly move. Was I unreasonable?


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#45

Post by Killadocg23 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:55 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 am
flechero wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am
Big difference between a "good shoot" and a "legal shoot" I think our crowd leans more towards only calling a "good shoot," good when discussing these vs. just going with the legal aspect.

Either way, attacking a senior citizen for talking to your girlfriend is criminal... and I feel sorry for the kid - who now only has 1 crappy parent.
Plenty of blame to go around on all 3 sides.
- girlfriend didn't have to park there, other slots were available. she could have rolled up her window, fired up car and left any time.
- boyfriend chose to physically assault, from behind an older smaller man. It can be argued that the physical disparity made the attack potentially deadly force. BF could have just said "Woman we're leaving, start pulling out" and got in car after. Given that this is Florida, I'm sure that this is far from the first time either has had the 'n' word used on them, if that was the case. Sticks and stones......
- Shooter is apparently self appointed foul mouthed volunteer parking police. If you purposely go looking for trouble while carry a gun, you're probably going to find it...

- I'm sure that GF will have a new baby daddy soon, probably before the funeral is over. so the kid will STILL have TWO crappy parents.
Sounds like a pretty racist and ignorant statement to me ,especially after the lost of a love one no matter the circumstances.

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