ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

As the name indicates, this is the place for gun-related political discussions. It is not open to other political topics.

Moderators: Charles L. Cotton, carlson1

User avatar

Topic author
AndyC
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 10648
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:34 pm
Location: Garland, TX

ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#1

Post by AndyC » Wed May 01, 2019 2:02 pm

I'm not paranoid, but given that we've been fed the line all along that "the Vegas shooter used bump-stocks!" - and they've subsequently been banned - this is rather interesting:

Image
Remember Kitty Genovese

Image

Amateurs skip safety-checks - pros don't.
Preferred Travel Agent - 72 Virgins Dating Club, Iraq
There's nothing quite like the offer of 230 grains to a man's chest to remind him of his manners

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 25411
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#2

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed May 01, 2019 2:19 pm

Especially considering the date on the letter!
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.

User avatar

Allons
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1931
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:03 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#3

Post by Allons » Wed May 01, 2019 2:20 pm

Very interesting, I wonder how they're going to backtrack out of this one
EDC'S: Dan Wesson CCO, CZ-P01, CZ-P07, MP Shield-45
Home Defense: Mossberg 930 SPX
NRA Member
US Army 1988-1999


crazy2medic
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1706
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:59 am

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#4

Post by crazy2medic » Wed May 01, 2019 2:36 pm

When questioned by the Attorney for GOA during the hearing to make butt stocks declared machineguns, the ATF refused to confirm or deny if a bump stock was used in the las vegas shooting!
Last edited by crazy2medic on Wed May 01, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker

User avatar

Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1339
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#5

Post by Scott B. » Wed May 01, 2019 3:26 pm

From reading the letter, ATF did not say that at all. Rather they're stating only that they've found no records.

How literal was this FOIA search?

Did they simply search for crime reports coded with the words "bump stock?"

Perhaps they only recorded the brand/model number of said "bump stock."

Or, and this is my suspicion, since the 'bump stock" has never been part of firearms model/nomenclature it was never recorded to begin with. Do they record the brand of sights or other rifle furniture? Not that I'm aware of.

The response raises more questions but certainly doesn't say what the subject line says.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT


jb2012
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 899
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:12 pm

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#6

Post by jb2012 » Wed May 01, 2019 3:34 pm

Scott B. wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:26 pm
From reading the letter, ATF did not say that at all. Rather they're stating only that they've found no records.

How literal was this FOIA search?

Did they simply search for crime reports coded with the words "bump stock?"

Perhaps they only recorded the brand/model number of said "bump stock."

Or, and this is my suspicion, since the 'bump stock" has never been part of firearms model/nomenclature it was never recorded to begin with. Do they record the brand of sights or other rifle furniture? Not that I'm aware of.

The response raises more questions but certainly doesn't say what the subject line says.
I have to disagree and here’s why. We can all agree that the ATF/left has wanted to ban bumpstocks since the Las Vegas shooting. We can all agree that IF the ATF were to be biased in one direction (hint:they are) they would use any resource available to find records of crime committed with bumpstocks to further their own agenda. It’s much more logical that the ATF “got got”. They are required under FOIA to disclose any of these records, and I can guarantee you that if there were crimes committed with these items, it would be in this letter. It really only makes sense this way. I cannot imagine the ATF “hiding” or “failing to disclose” information that is a MAJOR key point in their own argument.

User avatar

canvasbck
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1101
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:45 pm
Location: Alvin

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#7

Post by canvasbck » Wed May 01, 2019 4:24 pm

AndyC wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:02 pm
I'm not paranoid, but given that we've been fed the line all along that "the Vegas shooter used bump-stocks!" - and they've subsequently been banned - this is rather interesting:

Image
AndyC, Where did you get this from? I can find no updates on the Samboulieh law firm's website since march regarding any bumpstock suits.
"All bleeding eventually stops.......quit whining!"

User avatar

Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1339
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#8

Post by Scott B. » Wed May 01, 2019 5:00 pm

jb2012 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:34 pm
Scott B. wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:26 pm
From reading the letter, ATF did not say that at all. Rather they're stating only that they've found no records.

How literal was this FOIA search?

Did they simply search for crime reports coded with the words "bump stock?"

Perhaps they only recorded the brand/model number of said "bump stock."

Or, and this is my suspicion, since the 'bump stock" has never been part of firearms model/nomenclature it was never recorded to begin with. Do they record the brand of sights or other rifle furniture? Not that I'm aware of.

The response raises more questions but certainly doesn't say what the subject line says.
I have to disagree and here’s why. We can all agree that the ATF/left has wanted to ban bumpstocks since the Las Vegas shooting. We can all agree that IF the ATF were to be biased in one direction (hint:they are) they would use any resource available to find records of crime committed with bumpstocks to further their own agenda. It’s much more logical that the ATF “got got”. They are required under FOIA to disclose any of these records, and I can guarantee you that if there were crimes committed with these items, it would be in this letter. It really only makes sense this way. I cannot imagine the ATF “hiding” or “failing to disclose” information that is a MAJOR key point in their own argument.
If "we can all agree" the world would be a boring place. The ATF does not have a collective mindset and I would have worded such a request differently.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT

User avatar

Lynyrd
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:20 am
Location: East Texas

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#9

Post by Lynyrd » Wed May 01, 2019 8:31 pm

There is so much of the Las Vegas incident that REEKS of cover up. We will never know what truly happened because the government does not want us to. Why? The only logical reason is because there is something that would be embarrassing or damaging to powerful people if it were made public.
Do what you say you're gonna do.


srothstein
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 4198
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Luling, TX

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#10

Post by srothstein » Wed May 01, 2019 9:19 pm

jb2012 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:34 pm
I have to disagree and here’s why. We can all agree that the ATF/left has wanted to ban bumpstocks since the Las Vegas shooting. We can all agree that IF the ATF were to be biased in one direction (hint:they are) they would use any resource available to find records of crime committed with bumpstocks to further their own agenda. It’s much more logical that the ATF “got got”. They are required under FOIA to disclose any of these records, and I can guarantee you that if there were crimes committed with these items, it would be in this letter. It really only makes sense this way. I cannot imagine the ATF “hiding” or “failing to disclose” information that is a MAJOR key point in their own argument.
This subject is in litigation, so you have to understand how they can answer this without giving away their case in advance of when they want to. There are a lot of tricks used in answering FOIA requests. For example, one way to give this answer and not give away their case is to answer the question as literally as possible. Most people don't ask questions that are exactly what they want. So, if I send in an FOIA to the ATF asking for any of their records of any bump stocks having been used in a crime, they can look solely at the cases they prosecuted and look just for the exact words "bump stock". They find no such case and answer the question none exist. But if you ask for any records the ATF is in possession of where any device was used in a crime that makes a semi-automatic weapon fire more rapidly than the manufacturer made it, you might get a different answer.

Of course, the answer does not say that no bump stocks were used in crimes, just that the ATF has no record of such. They may know of cases where it has happened but have no record written down of it.
Steve Rothstein

User avatar

Topic author
AndyC
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 10648
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:34 pm
Location: Garland, TX

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#11

Post by AndyC » Wed May 01, 2019 11:45 pm

canvasbck wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:24 pm
AndyC wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:02 pm
I'm not paranoid, but given that we've been fed the line all along that "the Vegas shooter used bump-stocks!" - and they've subsequently been banned - this is rather interesting:

Image
AndyC, Where did you get this from? I can find no updates on the Samboulieh law firm's website since march regarding any bumpstock suits.
HistoricArmsLLC at arfcom filed the FOIA request - details here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/BRE ... 5-2216899/

When you combine the ATF FOIA results above with the GOA thing I posted a while back, it becomes pretty interesting.
Remember Kitty Genovese

Image

Amateurs skip safety-checks - pros don't.
Preferred Travel Agent - 72 Virgins Dating Club, Iraq
There's nothing quite like the offer of 230 grains to a man's chest to remind him of his manners

User avatar

AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: SW Fort Worth

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#12

Post by AJSully421 » Thu May 02, 2019 2:32 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:19 pm
Especially considering the date on the letter!
What is significant about either date on that letter?
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 25411
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#13

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu May 02, 2019 6:09 am

AJSully421 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:32 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:19 pm
Especially considering the date on the letter!
What is significant about either date on that letter?
Just that it was dated the same day Andy posted it. So if it is real - and I assume it is - then it is very recent information rather than something that’s been floating around for a while.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.


TreyHouston
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:00 pm
Location: Tomball

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#14

Post by TreyHouston » Thu May 02, 2019 7:23 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:09 am
AJSully421 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:32 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:19 pm
Especially considering the date on the letter!
What is significant about either date on that letter?
Just that it was dated the same day Andy posted it. So if it is real - and I assume it is - then it is very recent information rather than something that’s been floating around for a while.
That IS very interesting! Was the letter not mailed? How did it get posted online so fast and why is there no record on the law firms website?
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:


Malawler
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: ATF says bump-stocks have never been used in a crime...

#15

Post by Malawler » Thu May 02, 2019 8:35 am

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Post Reply

Return to “Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues”