Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

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ELB
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Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#1

Post by ELB » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:30 am

Exclusive: Feds Order Apple And Google To Hand Over Names Of 10,000+ Users Of A Gun Scope App
According to a court order filed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) on September 5, investigators want information on users of Obsidian 4, a tool used to control rifle scopes made by night-vision specialist American Technologies Network Corp. The app allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device. According to the Google Play page for Obsidian 4, it has more than 10,000 downloads. Apple doesn’t provide download numbers, so it’s unclear how many iPhone owners have been swept up in this latest government data grab.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

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Post by Grayling813 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:01 am

Police state, no longer land of the free.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#3

Post by joe817 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:06 am

:shock: Wow! Folks, you all need to read the entire article! This might set a VERY dangerous precedent! A blatant attempt on circumventing civil liberties and privacy rights. VERY scary.

I thank Forbes for publishing this article. "(The order was supposed to have been sealed, but Forbes obtained it before the document was hidden from public view.)"

Thanks for posting this ELB.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#4

Post by Beiruty » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:53 pm

Sue the government for breach of privacy. Someone has to do it. You are assumed to be innocent until proven otherwise.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#5

Post by Beiruty » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:58 pm

It is not approved yet. Most likely it would not be approved and if it does, it would affect those living outside US only. That is if the Judge is wise enough.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#6

Post by Tex1961 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:01 pm

Beiruty wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:58 pm
It is not approved yet. Most likely it would not be approved and if it does, it would affect those living outside US only. That is if the Judge is wise enough.
Ok, now you just being silly..... :lol::

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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#7

Post by rotor » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm

Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.

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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#8

Post by ELB » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm

rotor wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm
Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.
Your logic is fine as far as it goes, but unfortunately the Feds have shown themselves spectacularly unable keep within the bounds of the law during investigations (see "unmasking", lying to courts to obtain "legal" permission for spying, etc).

It would seem that if the DOJ is looking for overseas end users, then they could request that from the companies, but it appears they are grabbing all users and want to do the sorting themselves:
"The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. "
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#9

Post by anygunanywhere » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:37 pm

I have the app and I have a scope. I use them for killing hogs and coyotes at night.

I'm already on multiple lists. Might as well be on one more.
"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: Its patriotism, Its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." Joseph Stalin


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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#10

Post by rotor » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:46 pm

ELB wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm
rotor wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm
Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.
Your logic is fine as far as it goes, but unfortunately the Feds have shown themselves spectacularly unable keep within the bounds of the law during investigations (see "unmasking", lying to courts to obtain "legal" permission for spying, etc).

It would seem that if the DOJ is looking for overseas end users, then they could request that from the companies, but it appears they are grabbing all users and want to do the sorting themselves:
"The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. "
I normally would not trust the feds either. I hope that all they go for are foreign users too. ATN I doubt knows all of the people that have their scopes as I doubt that terrorists register them. But it is likely that terrorists have downloaded the app. The app without the scope is useless. I guess we will see what happens with Apple and Google.

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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#11

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:49 pm

rotor wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:46 pm
ELB wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm
rotor wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm
Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.
Your logic is fine as far as it goes, but unfortunately the Feds have shown themselves spectacularly unable keep within the bounds of the law during investigations (see "unmasking", lying to courts to obtain "legal" permission for spying, etc).

It would seem that if the DOJ is looking for overseas end users, then they could request that from the companies, but it appears they are grabbing all users and want to do the sorting themselves:
"The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. "
I normally would not trust the feds either. I hope that all they go for are foreign users too. ATN I doubt knows all of the people that have their scopes as I doubt that terrorists register them. But it is likely that terrorists have downloaded the app. The app without the scope is useless. I guess we will see what happens with Apple and Google.
Now that would be profiling and we know we just can't have that. :waiting:

I was going to leave it at that but changed my mind. We as Americans have allowed our government to trample our right to privacy. Why? Because some piece of garbage Islamic terrorists blew up two high rises. This is simply more manifestation of the government taking advantage of Americans fear. Once they get power, they take it to the extreme. They will not stop either. It is only going to get worse until one of two things happen.We lose our freedom completely or we stand up to them. It is just the way it is.


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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#12

Post by Grayling813 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:29 pm

rotor wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm
Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.
How does Apple or Google know if the apps were downloaded by citizens or not? They don’t, so everyone who has downloaded the app is now a suspected terrorist?

We’re giving up so much liberty for a little safety. Someone warned us about that a long time ago.....
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#13

Post by narcissist » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:25 pm

Sounds like good old spot lighting is looking better and better (hogs only of course). I was wondering why those scopes had fallen in price so much, guess we know why now.
One of my biggest mistakes in life...Is Believing people will show me the same love I've shown them. :reddevil

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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#14

Post by Beiruty » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:19 pm

narcissist wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:25 pm
Sounds like good old spot lighting is looking better and better (hogs only of course). I was wondering why those scopes had fallen in price so much, guess we know why now.
no model is coming out soon.
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Re: Feds Order Apple & Google to hand over users of rifle scope app

#15

Post by The Annoyed Man » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:24 pm

narcissist wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:25 pm
Sounds like good old spot lighting is looking better and better (hogs only of course). I was wondering why those scopes had fallen in price so much, guess we know why now.
Mine is now selling for $400 less than when I bought it, and even then, I paid about $250 less than it was originally listed at. https://www.atncorp.com/thermal-scope-t ... 4-1-25x-5x

When I bought mine, list price was $1999, and I paid $1729 for it. Now the list is $1799, and I’m seeing it for $1599 on OpticsPlanet.com. They’re cool, but they’re not the be all end all.
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