Handgun VS Knife

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03Lightningrocks
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Handgun VS Knife

#1

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:31 am

I thought this topic was best place to post this. It shows how an assailant can keep coming, even after multiple shots.

I also am curious if the rounds in the officers gun are full metal jacket rather than expanding hollow points.



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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#2

Post by OneGun » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:51 am

Wonder if the BG was on drugs???
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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#3

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:53 am

OneGun wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:51 am
Wonder if the BG was on drugs???
I think he had to be. He took center of mass shots and just kept coming. It was like he did not know he was shot.

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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#4

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:30 am

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:53 am
OneGun wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:51 am
Wonder if the BG was on drugs???
I think he had to be. He took center of mass shots and just kept coming. It was like he did not know he was shot.
By the way. This video appears to be in Mexico. I just noticed the woman grabbing the knife and running off with it. An attempt to claim the perp had no weapon? Maybe?


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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#5

Post by cirus » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:52 am

He should have pumped the rounds into his stomach or crotch. Bet he would have stopped real quick.

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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#6

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:38 pm

cirus wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:52 am
He should have pumped the rounds into his stomach or crotch. Bet he would have stopped real quick.
Maybe but if the perp is insane and pumped up on drugs, they may not realize they are shot even in the crotch. Based on where the guy was bleeding from, it sure looked like a heart shot. Reminds me of watching heart shot deer running 150 yards after being hit with a round out of my 25.06. It makes the argument that a knife can be just as deadly as a gun.

The cop at least followed the rule of, don't stop shooting until the threat has stopped. Or in this case, the threat was on top of him.


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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#7

Post by Grayling813 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:56 pm

Gotta take the head shot and shut down the central nervous system.
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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#8

Post by Caliber » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:01 pm

Not unusual at all. The only shot to instantly stop the BG is to hit the computer (head). Otherwise, if you hit some major pipes, bleed out/blood pressure drop can take up to two minutes. People in really good physical shape can take a hit in the heart and still be active for several minutes. I learned this info from a two-day class with Steve Tarani.


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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#9

Post by cirus » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:04 pm

Grayling813 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:56 pm
Gotta take the head shot and shut down the central nervous system.
That might be hard to do while backing up and firing. I think a shotgun with 00 buckshot would do the trick. Open that chest up and he would probably drop.

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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#10

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:09 pm

Caliber wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:01 pm
Not unusual at all. The only shot to instantly stop the BG is to hit the computer (head). Otherwise, if you hit some major pipes, bleed out/blood pressure drop can take up to two minutes. People in really good physical shape can take a hit in the heart and still be active for several minutes. I learned this info from a two-day class with Steve Tarani.
I have read this also. A head shot can be a hard place to hit if the perp is on the move. Most officers are trained to aim right where this cop shot the guy. Even for self defense purposes, COM is your best chance of scoring a hit that will stop the threat.

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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#11

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:23 pm

Caliber wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:01 pm
Not unusual at all. The only shot to instantly stop the BG is to hit the computer (head). Otherwise, if you hit some major pipes, bleed out/blood pressure drop can take up to two minutes. People in really good physical shape can take a hit in the heart and still be active for several minutes. I learned this info from a two-day class with Steve Tarani.
I have personally had a fairly extended conversation with someone who’d been shot right through his heart with a 9mm FMJ. He would have died eventually as he was experiencing a cardiac tamponade, and he was experiencing some pain and a little shortness of breath, but he was still conscious, alert, and oriented when we wheeled him into the OR, pretty close to an hour after he’d been shot. He and his partner in crime had attempted to hold up a liquor store a few blocks from our hospital, and the clerk had other ideas about how it was going to play out. The first guy had been hit twice—heart and upper arm (broken upper humerus bone). His partner was hit once, but the bullet broke both of his wrists, and hit his pectoral muscle, stopping against a rib. I helped remove that bullet from his chest for the forensics lab. So even FMJ won’t necessarily do a complete pass-through. It depends on what it hits along the wound channel.
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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#12

Post by Liberty » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:34 pm

Even a shot into the brain is no guarantee of an immediate stop.
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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#13

Post by narcissist » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:56 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:38 pm
cirus wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:52 am
He should have pumped the rounds into his stomach or crotch. Bet he would have stopped real quick.
Maybe but if the perp is insane and pumped up on drugs, they may not realize they are shot even in the crotch. Based on where the guy was bleeding from, it sure looked like a heart shot. Reminds me of watching heart shot deer running 150 yards after being hit with a round out of my 25.06. It makes the argument that a knife can be just as deadly as a gun.

The cop at least followed the rule of, don't stop shooting until the threat has stopped. Or in this case, the threat was on top of him.
Your right whitetail deer expecially the older one's wont go down easy at all even with my 30-378 wby. Most people will go down quick but if their minds go into fight or flight mode, it could be possible for a human to fight even though not on drugs. Doubtfully, probably just "survival mode" screaming help I dont wanna die. Knives in the right hands are a very deadly weapon, I carry the Tops-HKT. Great for a back-up, if I was in the cops shoe's would of done the same thing.
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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#14

Post by flintknapper » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:11 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:38 pm
The cop at least followed the rule of, don't stop shooting until the threat has stopped. Or in this case, the threat was on top of him.
Unless you get a CNS shot or mechanically break them down (pelvis shot) I would fully expect a determined attacker to continue on for something close to 30-45 seconds (seemingly an eternity when under attack).

IMO the officer made at least two errors that put him in greater jeopardy.

1. Although it is clear the officer was trying to maintain 'distance' while confronting the knife wielding suspect, he failed to stop and shoot quickly enough. There is a point (lacking cover or a viable avenue of escape) where you MUST commit to addressing the threat and proceed to do so. That 'point' is NOT AFTER the threat is already running your way! You should already have established good footing a TWO hand hold on your weapon (if possible) and be ready to fire.

2. The other mistake the officer made was to try to run backwards. You can NOT run backwards as fast as someone can close the distance on you by running forward. At the point the officer realized that....the attacker was already upon him. ALWAYS move off-line of the attack. This must be done at the proper time (not too soon or your attacker will simply track you), but as the attacker is nearly at striking distance. Of course, all this time you should be shooting. Just before the attacker will reach you....step off in a 45° or greater angle to the attack, continue shooting and maintain distance.
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Re: Handgun VS Knife

#15

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:17 pm

flintknapper wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:11 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:38 pm
The cop at least followed the rule of, don't stop shooting until the threat has stopped. Or in this case, the threat was on top of him.
Unless you get a CNS shot or mechanically break them down (pelvis shot) I would fully expect a determined attacker to continue on for something close to 30-45 seconds (seemingly an eternity when under attack).

IMO the officer made at least two errors that put him in greater jeopardy.

1. Although it is clear the officer was trying to maintain 'distance' while confronting the knife wielding suspect, he failed to stop and shoot quickly enough. There is a point (lacking cover or a viable avenue of escape) where you MUST commit to addressing the threat and proceed to do so. That 'point' is NOT AFTER the threat is already running your way! You should already have established good footing a TWO hand hold on your weapon (if possible) and be ready to fire.

2. The other mistake the officer made was to try to run backwards. You can NOT run backwards as fast as someone can close the distance on you by running forward. At the point the officer realized that....the attacker was already upon him. ALWAYS move off-line of the attack. This must be done at the proper time (not too soon or your attacker will simply track you), but as the attacker is nearly at striking distance. Of course, all this time you should be shooting. Just before the attacker will reach you....step off in a 45° or greater angle to the attack, continue shooting and maintain distance.
That sounds like some very good advice. As we all know, cops are not the only ones who might face an attack from a knife welding bad guy.

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