Waller County

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Overthehill
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Waller County

#1

Post by Overthehill » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:12 pm

AG Paxton sued Waller County back in 2016 for posting the entire court house and yet I have been unable to locate any decision in the case. Anyone know what did or is happening on this issue?

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ELB
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Re: Waller County

#2

Post by ELB » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:40 pm

I don’t believe any of the courthouse cases are going to move forward in court until the case against the city of Austin is finally resolved. They all involve similar issues and I’m sure the AG sees no point in expending resources fighting the same battle in several different trial courts. He has appealed at least part of the Austin trial court decision against the city of Austin to the appellate level. I believe once an appellate decision is reached then that will apply to other cities besides Austin. It will of course be possible to appeal that decision to the supreme court of Texas, but If it’s not a given that the Texas Supreme Court or take it, and I believe the appellate decision will serve as law for Texas until it does or doesn’t.
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Overthehill
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Re: Waller County

#3

Post by Overthehill » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:07 pm

Thank you


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Re: Waller County

#4

Post by LDP » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:23 pm

Thank you, ELB.

Now, any idea on how much longer these blue cities and counties will be violating our constitution?
IMHO, the AG really needs to get off his lazy butt to uphold the law and punish criminals. I have no idea why this is taking so long. If I committed a crime, I'd be in jail asap. Why can't we have swift criminal justice for these high-up people?
The law is written in ink and the violations are clear, there should be no delay in filing criminal charges and making the criminals remove illegal signage. *shrug*

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ELB
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Re: Waller County

#5

Post by ELB » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:19 pm

I don't think the AG is being lazy, and I would prefer that he get this particular case (Paxton v City of Austin) right because it will set precedent for how licensed carry is handled in courthouses throughout Texas. The speed of which the case advances is mostly at the mercy of the judges hearing the case, since they and there schedulers determine when to fit it in among all the other cases. Not to mention all the other cases that the OAG is fielding.

I have found that Paxton has submitted his brief on this appeal, but I still need to read it and I will post on it in the same thread where the rest of the case has been discussed, the 30.06 Ruling Letters.

Just at first glance tho, it appears the AG is trying to greatly increase the fine that City of Austin will have to pay for their violation. The trial judge fined them only for the days when the AG's investigators, posing as citizen LTC holders, were denied entry to City Hall while court was in session. This amounted to $9,000. The AG is arguing that the City should be fined for every day since the original complaint, to the tune of $5 MILLION.

And by the way, it is not the AG's fault that he does not pursue criminal charges. The unauthorized posting of the signs by a government entity is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. If you don't like that then talk to the Legislature, don't blame the AG.
USAF 1982-2005
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Re: Waller County

#6

Post by dlh » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:41 pm

Holcomb won in the appeals court which remanded the case back to the trial court to determine Holcomb's damages including his costs and attorneys fees. Have not heard what happened since then. I think the Supreme Court of Texas refused to hear the case.

http://www.search.txcourts.gov/SearchMe ... 6470cc5d0c

Have not heard anything about the intervention action filed by the A.G. though.
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Re: Waller County

#7

Post by Overthehill » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:58 pm

Will keep my fingers crossed that our AG triumphs in the appeal. San Patricio County Court House is 30.06 and 30.07, Sheriff's Office has no guns circle. Have not filed waiting for outcome on the Austin and Waller County Case. Thanks for all the updates.


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Re: Waller County

#8

Post by Aggie_engr » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:38 pm

It looks like there has been movement in the right direction on this topic, glad to see the AG is busy.

Meanwhile, the city of Galveston recently got a slap on the wrist.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ ... 998406.php


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Re: Waller County

#9

Post by LDP » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:04 pm

ELB wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:19 pm
And by the way, it is not the AG's fault that he does not pursue criminal charges. The unauthorized posting of the signs by a government entity is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. If you don't like that then talk to the Legislature, don't blame the AG.
Okay, I am confused now.
I thought that by posting illegal signage in violation of the state law, they are breaking said law and thus making this a criminal matter.
Am I misunderstanding the law? (I am not a lawyer) So I ask seriously, where is my logic failing me?

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Re: Waller County

#10

Post by ELB » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:43 pm

LDP wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:04 pm
ELB wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:19 pm
And by the way, it is not the AG's fault that he does not pursue criminal charges. The unauthorized posting of the signs by a government entity is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. If you don't like that then talk to the Legislature, don't blame the AG.
Okay, I am confused now.
I thought that by posting illegal signage in violation of the state law, they are breaking said law and thus making this a criminal matter.
Am I misunderstanding the law? (I am not a lawyer) So I ask seriously, where is my logic failing me?

IANAL and all that:

Not everything that is illegal is criminal. "Illegal" is contrary to any law, civil or criminal. Civil violations are generally punishable by fines (only), but criminal violations are generally punishable by imprisonment as well as fines. A parking violation is a civil offense, punching someone in the nose without justification is a criminal offense. (I don't know of an example, I think it might possible in some cases to stack up enough civil violations to become a criminal matter, but there would have to be a criminal law to this effect).

The prohibition of posting signs or otherwise forbidding licensed carry on the property of government entities has been in the law for, I dunno, I think at least 20 years, but it was not in the Penal Code or other criminal law code, it was in the Government Code, which is a civil (not criminal) law code. Until the Legislative session in 2015 there was no penalty whatsoever for anyone or any government entity violating that portion of the Government Code.

In the Regular Session of the 85th Legislature in 2015 SB 273 was passed, which put in place CIVIL penalties for state agencies and political subdivisions of the state (not individuals) who violate the Government (civil) Code with respect to illegally prohibiting licensed carry on government property. The civil penalties were limited to a fine levied against the agency or subdivision (not a person) of not less than $1,000 nor more than $1, 500 for the first violation and not less than $10,000 nor more than $10,500 for the second and subsequent violations. The AG has to prove the violations in court before the fines can be levied, and that is the extent of the enforcement mechanism. There are no criminal penalties for the individuals who violate this particular law, so there is no criminal penalty for the AG to pursue.
USAF 1982-2005
____________
“The only thing more enjoyable than seeing your opponent lose an election they rigged is seeing them lose an investigation they rigged.” Author unknown but dead on the mark.


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Re: Waller County

#11

Post by LDP » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:47 pm

Now I understand well.
Thank you very much for this clear explanation, sir. :tiphat:

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ELB
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Re: Waller County

#12

Post by ELB » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:09 pm

LDP wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:47 pm
Now I understand well.
Thank you very much for this clear explanation, sir. :tiphat:
You're welcome. As IANAL, I hope it is also the correct explanation. ;-)
USAF 1982-2005
____________
“The only thing more enjoyable than seeing your opponent lose an election they rigged is seeing them lose an investigation they rigged.” Author unknown but dead on the mark.

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