ATF proposed changes to 4473

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Grayling813
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ATF proposed changes to 4473

#1

Post by Grayling813 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:10 pm

Changes Coming to ATF Form 4473
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/art ... form-4473/
The most noteworthy change for enthusiasts is that the inventory of transferred firearms , with serial numbers and descriptions, come at the top of page 1 instead of buried on the previous version’s second page. Total fields are available for guns is three instead of the previous form’s four.
:banghead:
“Non-binary” is added in the sex field options,
:banghead:
The section inquiring if the transferee is under indictment for a felony would also now ask, “…or are you a current member of the military who has been charged with violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and whose charges have been referred to a General Court Martial?”

In addition, the question regarding whether the person has ever been convicted of a misdemeanor of domestic violence would, if approved, include,“…or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?”
Hopefully the NRA, other gun rights organizations and individuals are engaged in opposing these unnecessary changes and further infringements by the ATF bureaucracy.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#2

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:42 pm

I’m guessing that the third item is direct fallout from the Sutherland Springs church shooting.
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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#3

Post by Aggie_engr » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:57 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:42 pm
I’m guessing that the third item is direct fallout from the Sutherland Springs church shooting.
Exactly what I thought when read #3. However, this rule change means nothing until military records are shared for purposes of NICS checks and/or prosecution is brought to people who know they will fail NICS but try to purchase guns anyway.


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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#4

Post by LDP » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm

And I have to wonder about the reason for item #2.
If the question can be left unanswered by offering some "other" options then what is the true point of the question?
Whenever I see a box labeled "Sex" on any form, I try to fill in "I LIKE". *shrug*

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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#5

Post by RoyGBiv » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:29 pm

LDP wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm
And I have to wonder about the reason for item #2.
If the question can be left unanswered by offering some "other" options then what is the true point of the question?
Whenever I see a box labeled "Sex" on any form, I try to fill in "I LIKE". *shrug*
The info on the 4473 needs to match exactly to the ID you provide the FFL. Some states are now issuing licenses with the "non binary" designation, so, if the 4473 only had male/female, those with non-binary designation on their state issued ID's would be unable to complete an FFL transaction legally.

This particular issue was caused by the states and ATF did what they need to do to remedy it. I may be not yet completely woke regarding non-binary things, but I don't want to do anything to discourage any law abiding person from owning the means for self-protection, so, kudos to ATF on this one.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#6

Post by strogg » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:00 pm

I see the rationale behind 2 and 3. 2 makes perfect sense from a state ID standpoint. 3 is an unnecessary knee-jerk reaction, but I get it as a point of clarification in the event that the ATF needs to charge someone for lying on a 4473. Now item number 1 needs to be updated by added a second page full of lines for those times I need to buy 30+ in a single transaction. You never know, right?


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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#7

Post by jb2012 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:18 pm

In 2018 there were 112,000 NICS Denials, and 12 were prosecuted. Instead of changing the verbiage on a 4473, how about prosecutors start doing their job. On top of that Changing the wording on the 4473 still does absolutely nothing towards prosecuting folks that lie on their 4473.
:banghead:


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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#8

Post by strogg » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:02 pm

jb2012 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:18 pm
In 2018 there were 112,000 NICS Denials, and 12 were prosecuted. Instead of changing the verbiage on a 4473, how about prosecutors start doing their job. On top of that Changing the wording on the 4473 still does absolutely nothing towards prosecuting folks that lie on their 4473.
:banghead:
Do you happen to know how many of the 112K denials in 2018 pertain to questions on the 4473?


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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#9

Post by jb2012 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:56 am

strogg wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:02 pm
jb2012 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:18 pm
In 2018 there were 112,000 NICS Denials, and 12 were prosecuted. Instead of changing the verbiage on a 4473, how about prosecutors start doing their job. On top of that Changing the wording on the 4473 still does absolutely nothing towards prosecuting folks that lie on their 4473.
:banghead:
Do you happen to know how many of the 112K denials in 2018 pertain to questions on the 4473?
I don’t have that specific stat. I got my number from:
https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/694290.pdf

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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#10

Post by bbhack » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:47 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:29 pm
LDP wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm
And I have to wonder about the reason for item #2.
If the question can be left unanswered by offering some "other" options then what is the true point of the question?
Whenever I see a box labeled "Sex" on any form, I try to fill in "I LIKE". *shrug*
The info on the 4473 needs to match exactly to the ID you provide the FFL. Some states are now issuing licenses with the "non binary" designation, so, if the 4473 only had male/female, those with non-binary designation on their state issued ID's would be unable to complete an FFL transaction legally.

This particular issue was caused by the states and ATF did what they need to do to remedy it. I may be not yet completely woke regarding non-binary things, but I don't want to do anything to discourage any law abiding person from owning the means for self-protection, so, kudos to ATF on this one.
An EO could remedy that. Not like there's nothing else going on, but it could be a blanket for all agencies and all forms.
No Trespassing Violators Will Be Prosecuted

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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#11

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:08 pm

LDP wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm
And I have to wonder about the reason for item #2.
If the question can be left unanswered by offering some "other" options then what is the true point of the question?
Whenever I see a box labeled "Sex" on any form, I try to fill in "I LIKE". *shrug*
I must be getting older. I would write,"depends on what is on TV". :biggrinjester:

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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#12

Post by Mel » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:52 am

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:08 pm
LDP wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm
And I have to wonder about the reason for item #2.
If the question can be left unanswered by offering some "other" options then what is the true point of the question?
Whenever I see a box labeled "Sex" on any form, I try to fill in "I LIKE". *shrug*
I must be getting older. I would write,"depends on what is on TV". :biggrinjester:
No. "Depends" is what you answer when asked, "Do you wear boxers or briefs?"
Mel
Airworthiness Inspector specializing in Experimental and Light-Sport Aircraft since the last Century.

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03Lightningrocks
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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#13

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:08 pm

Mel wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:52 am
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:08 pm
LDP wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:00 pm
And I have to wonder about the reason for item #2.
If the question can be left unanswered by offering some "other" options then what is the true point of the question?
Whenever I see a box labeled "Sex" on any form, I try to fill in "I LIKE". *shrug*
I must be getting older. I would write,"depends on what is on TV". :biggrinjester:
No. "Depends" is what you answer when asked, "Do you wear boxers or briefs?"
Oh my! I am not quite there just yet.But I have started paying more attention to the commercials. Just in case. :biggrinjester:

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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#14

Post by gtolbert09 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:36 pm

The proposed new 4473 also reduces the number of firearms listed on it from 4 to 3.
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Re: ATF proposed changes to 4473

#15

Post by tk1700 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:13 am

The proposed new 4473 also reduces the number of firearms listed on it from 4 to 3./quote]

True, but continuation pages are easy to fill out and attach. I work in a gun shop and at least 90% of our 4473's are for 1 or 2 guns. I recently did a 4473 for 12 firearms and it wasn't an issue to add 2 continuation pages. Currently the continuation page is just another copy of page 3 which has space for 4 firearms. The new 4473 proposal allows for continuation pages for additional firearms.

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