Turkey shells Syria

[philip964]

https://www.rt.com/news/332414-turkey-c ... l-kurdish/

So with Russia committed to Syria, what will Putin's response be?

Or more troubling what will Obamas's response be after Putin's response.

No wonder gold went up last week and everything else went down.

[Pawpaw]

https://www.rt.com/news/332414-turkey-c ... l-kurdish/

So with Russia committed to Syria, what will Putin's response be?

Or more troubling what will Obamas's response be after Putin's response.

No wonder gold went up last week and everything else went down.

He'll unfriend Putin on Facebook and submit a sternly worded whimper on Twitter.

[Bitter Clinger]

[SIRIT]

That's pretty good

[brokedown48]

How true !

[philip964]

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-saudi-coul ... 37595.html

Saudi could send ground troops.

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-shells-syr ... 10720.html

Obama urging Russia.

[The Annoyed Man]

https://www.rt.com/news/332414-turkey-c ... l-kurdish/

So with Russia committed to Syria, what will Putin's response be?

Or more troubling what will Obamas's response be after Putin's response.

No wonder gold went up last week and everything else went down.

It's worth noting that an attack on any NATO member requires a response from ALL NATO members. The U.S. is a NATO member. Turkey is a NATO member, and if they are attacked, the alliance requires a U.S. response. OTH, Obama is a waffling coward who doesn't have the spine to back America's commitments.

OTH, NONE of those countries is worth the life of a single brave American warrior more — PARTICULARLY when most of those countries hate us (Turkey included) and are incapable of the kinds of political values that the rest of civilized society takes for granted. We have bled enough over there. Let them all kill each other off.

[Beiruty]

https://www.rt.com/news/332414-turkey-c ... l-kurdish/

So with Russia committed to Syria, what will Putin's response be?

Or more troubling what will Obamas's response be after Putin's response.

No wonder gold went up last week and everything else went down.

It's worth noting that an attack on any NATO member requires a response from ALL NATO members. The U.S. is a NATO member. Turkey is a NATO member, and if they are attacked, the alliance requires a U.S. response. OTH, Obama is a waffling coward who doesn't have the spine to back America's commitments.

OTH, NONE of those countries is worth the life of a single brave American warrior more — PARTICULARLY when most of those countries hate us (Turkey included) and are incapable of the kinds of political values that the rest of civilized society takes for granted. We have bled enough over there. Let them all kill each other off.

If the Turkey is not an Asset for NATO, it would not stay in the Alliance for a single day. Being overzealous is not helping. It is because of the US foreign policy failures and shying away from the Red lines, that made Putin more aggressive in Syria and Ukraine and Kooram's pre-island. Putin annex major chunk of land and not single actions from the West. It is a Shame. China is building up and expanding and US is just we will fly some planes there.

[Jusme]

https://www.rt.com/news/332414-turkey-c ... l-kurdish/

So with Russia committed to Syria, what will Putin's response be?

Or more troubling what will Obamas's response be after Putin's response.

No wonder gold went up last week and everything else went down.

It's worth noting that an attack on any NATO member requires a response from ALL NATO members. The U.S. is a NATO member. Turkey is a NATO member, and if they are attacked, the alliance requires a U.S. response. OTH, Obama is a waffling coward who doesn't have the spine to back America's commitments.

OTH, NONE of those countries is worth the life of a single brave American warrior more — PARTICULARLY when most of those countries hate us (Turkey included) and are incapable of the kinds of political values that the rest of civilized society takes for granted. We have bled enough over there. Let them all kill each other off.

And we should also stop being the safe haven for everyone who decides after the heat get too hot to bail and head to our shores. There are plenty of countries where the culture, religious beliefs, and ideals are much more closely in line with those fleeing, but those countries are refusing them entry. Wonder Why??? Think they might know something we refuse to acknowledge??

[Beiruty]

https://www.rt.com/news/332414-turkey-c ... l-kurdish/

So with Russia committed to Syria, what will Putin's response be?

Or more troubling what will Obamas's response be after Putin's response.

No wonder gold went up last week and everything else went down.

It's worth noting that an attack on any NATO member requires a response from ALL NATO members. The U.S. is a NATO member. Turkey is a NATO member, and if they are attacked, the alliance requires a U.S. response. OTH, Obama is a waffling coward who doesn't have the spine to back America's commitments.

OTH, NONE of those countries is worth the life of a single brave American warrior more — PARTICULARLY when most of those countries hate us (Turkey included) and are incapable of the kinds of political values that the rest of civilized society takes for granted. We have bled enough over there. Let them all kill each other off.

And we should also stop being the safe haven for everyone who decides after the heat get too hot to bail and head to our shores. There are plenty of countries where the culture, religious beliefs, and ideals are much more closely in line with those fleeing, but those countries are refusing them entry. Wonder Why??? Think they might know something we refuse to acknowledge??

Check with UN refugees registrations and you would see that millions of Syrian Civilians are housed, fed and supported in neighboring courtiers.


Ever asked why Syrian people are fleeing their country?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-midea ... SKCN0VO12Y

[baldeagle]

Not to be cold hearted about it, Beiruty, but the militant jihadists have routinely used hospitals and mosques as safe shelters, because US ROE won't allow attacking them. The Russians have no such compunctions. So they'd better figure out there is no safe place and get out.

The US has screwed over the mideast for 50 years. It's time to let them settle the issues without us. We should supply allies like the Kurds, but we should stay out. Even the idiots on the GOP side think we should get rid of Assad (except for Cruz), which, in light of what happened in Iraq and Libya, doesn't make any sense at all. US leadership is a huge failure, and it doesn't look like it's going to improve.

[Beiruty]

Not to be cold hearted about it, Beiruty, but the militant jihadists have routinely used hospitals and mosques as safe shelters, because US ROE won't allow attacking them. The Russians have no such compunctions. So they'd better figure out there is no safe place and get out.

The US has screwed over the mideast for 50 years. It's time to let them settle the issues without us. We should supply allies like the Kurds, but we should stay out. Even the idiots on the GOP side think we should get rid of Assad (except for Cruz), which, in light of what happened in Iraq and Libya, doesn't make any sense at all. US leadership is a huge failure, and it doesn't look like it's going to improve.

Assad gazed his own people and no one lift up a finger. Saddam may have done so at one time under the eyes of US, but got nailed at the end.
US foreign policy sucks. What the whole middle east needs is an Arab revolution as large as US civil war. Basically re-unifying the whole Arab countries as single (Federal) United Arab States. However, such historic event would not sit well with US or Russia. And, this is why US/Europe (French and British)/Russia were screwing with the Middle East for a long time. Divide and let them kill each other.

[baldeagle]

Beiruty, I can't disagree with you. It's been screwed up since WWI, because the western powers and Russia have meddled constantly.

[Beiruty]

Beiruty, I can't disagree with you. It's been screwed up since WWI, because the western powers and Russia have meddled constantly.

100% correct.

[The Annoyed Man]

Assad gazed his own people and no one lift up a finger. Saddam may have done so at one time under the eyes of US, but got nailed at the end.
US foreign policy sucks. What the whole middle east needs is an Arab revolution as large as US civil war. Basically re-unifying the whole Arab countries as single (Federal) United Arab States. However, such historic event would not sit well with US or Russia. And, this is why US/Europe (French and British)/Russia were screwing with the Middle East for a long time. Divide and let them kill each other.

Saddam gassed his own people, which certainly helped to build the case for WMD which was used to justify the invasion of Iraq, he got nailed, and now the world hates us even more for having invaded Iraq.

You're right, US foreign policy often sucks, but the US is very much in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. As the world's dominant military power, nearly everybody expects us to do something, but nobody is happy with whatever it is we choose to do. No matter what the US does, there are going to be back-biters who will complain and accuse us of injustice. At some point, we have to say, "enough". WHY are we responsible for what Assad does to his people? WHY are we to risk a confrontation with the worlds second most powerful nation - Russia - over some crapulent thug in the middle east? The US has a very poor record, EXACTLY because of the eastern predilection for the philosophy that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The US began supporting the Shah of Iran when he still had broad support among his people. When his support collapsed, the US refused to assist in deposing the Shah, but we also refused to prevent the revolutionary takeover of Iran. We left Iran's future in the hands of Iran's people. Iran now has the exactly the gov't they wanted (and deserve). And they hate us.

After that, the US supported Iraq in its war against Iran, in which Iran was both the aggressor and the more powerful nation (having been bolstered by all the military hardware that we had once sold to the Shah). Then when Saddam's evil grew too great and he invaded Kuwait, the US drove him out, but did not try to take over EITHER Iraq OR Kuwait. Now the Kuwaitis mostly hate us. When Saddam's evil grew even stronger and he gassed his own people, and at least tried to deceive the US/UN into thinking that he had vast WMD stockpiles and was working to buy yellowcake uranium for the purpose of developing a nuclear bomb (which, BTW, fooled the intelligence agencies of a LOT of countries, not just ours), and he made threats against the Saudis and began cooperating with the NORKS, the US led an invasion of Iraq, and deposed him. But note, we did not try him and hang him, we turned him over to his own people for that, and they did it. We did NOT steal their oil, but we DID make sure that the rest of the world was able to continue buying oil from Iraq without the profits being used to fund the development of nukes. And now the Iraqis hate us. We assisted the overthrow of a deeply unpopular dictator in Libya, and the Libyans now hate us. We sent a battalion of Marines to Beirut (as you know) to try and keep the peace in that war-torn city, and radicals in Beirut killed 240 or our men with a truck bomb. That's an act of hate. Then we said, "fine, you don't want us here, we'll leave", and we left. And now Lebanon hates us. American companies (CF Braun Engineering, Parsons Engineering, Jacobs Engineering) built cities in the Saudi desert and helped develop that nation's oil production capabilities, AND stationed troops there to protect the Saudis during Gulf War 1, and the Saudis, by and large, hate us. American troops went to Somalia to help end a famine, and when those troops attempted to arrest the leader who was responsible for causing the famine, Somalis erupted in anger and tried to kill them all. When we allowed some of those Somalis to emigrate to the US to escape their circumstances, some of them took up cause with Al Qaeda, and later ISIS, and the Somalis hate us. We have poured billions and billions of taxpayer dollars in foreign aid over the years into the coffers of middle eastern nations which all hate us.

In none of those countries did our involvement ever result in our claiming foreign territory as our own. In none of those countries in which we helped develop their oil reserves did we ever claim those reserves as our own. We did NOT claim Granada as our own. We did NOT claim Haiti as our own. We did NOT claim Panama as our own. We did NOT claim any part of France, Italy, North Africa, Germany, the Balkans, or any other place our boys have bled out to liberate other people, as our own territory.

We are a large, powerful, sometimes clumsy, but essentially benevolent nation which has only asked (and expected, much to our disappointment) that any country we help show us a little gratitude and respect for that help, and when the help is rendered, that they begin to act like nations instead of tribes, STOP killing one another off, and START rebuilding their countries and bringing them into the modern world. It matters not one whit to me if those countries are republics, monarchies, oligarchies, or theocracies, so long as they act like freaking adults with the opportunity they've been given with our help. I don't care what their race, religion, or cultural foundation is, so long as they act like freaking adults with the opportunity they've been given with our help.

Contrary to what the rest of the word seems to think, WE are under no legal or moral obligation to force help onto people who will neither appreciate it, or use it wisely. We have an old saying: "beggars can't be choosers". That means that if your country comes hat in hand to our country, asking for our help, your country does not get to dictate the terms of that help. If the terms of our help are not satisfactory, then go see if you can get better terms elsewhere. Typically, our terms include things like: you'll agree to open your markets to our products without excessively punitive tariffs (a perfectly reasonable expectation); you'll agree to the rule of law when dealing with American citizens (an entirely reasonable expectation); you will STOP collecting baksheesh just to do your job when you are already well paid by your country's standards for it (an entirely reasonable expectation); you will NOT make threats against the safety and/or freedom of peaceful people who come to your country to help distribute that foreign aid (an entirely reasonable expectation); and, no matter the dominant religion in your country, you will respect the religious freedoms of Americans who come to help you as part of that foreign aid (an entirely reasonable expectation).

Beiruty, I honestly do not see how U.S. diplomacy can EVER satisfy the middle east. They hate us, but they love our money. As long as we keep giving them money, they will be enabled to hate us and not respect us. Maybe it is time for the US to stop giving money to countries that hate us. That will give us an opportunity to reset the terms: "You want our money? You will show us gratitude and respect. Otherwise, get the money somewhere else." Actually, let those nations become a financial burden to Russia, or China. I don't actually care anymore. Trying to fulfill the role of planetary police has helped to bankrupt and diminish our nation, and NONE of that involvement has stopped evil from spreading in the world. Perhaps it is time for us to concentrate on our own internal well-being and let the world go to hades.

The way I see it, we do not owe the rest of the world a single darn thing, but they all owe us a LOT. Let the world repay us for a while with some generosity in return, or at least leave us in peace. At least we can't make things worse if we butt out, because trying to help hadn't accomplished a lick of good.