Hillary is talking about guns again...

[lawrnk]

Ammo and gun prices rise in 3....2...1..

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/1 ... -drug.html

[CaptWoodrow10]

Looks like I'll have to go back to calling around to find ammo again.

[A-R]

As Clinton spoke in a salon of the Mexican Secretariat of Foreign Relations, soldiers in a hall outside guarded a vast display of sophisticated assault rifles and other weaponry, mostly made in the U.S., captured from drug gangs.

"We know that the flow of illegal guns is a problem for our Mexican friends, and we are doing all that we can within our laws to prevent, interdict, arrest, prosecute and jail those who deal in illegal guns," she said.

Sophisticated assault rifles? Purchased illegally and smuggled across the border? Really?

I don't know about y'all, but when it comes to military weapons like assault rifles and other weaponry, I can't just go down to my local gun store and buy any such thing. Sure they have 60-year-old technology (AR-15) gussied up with tacticool accessories to look "sophisticated" and modern. If I get lucky, they might even have some 30-year-old tech like an MSAR rifle. But it's not like I can buy a SCAR or ACR readily at a local gun shop. I don't see any AA-12 shotguns on the shelves. And of course none of it is fully automatic nor explosive.

So where do these Mexican cartel's US straw buyers buy all this cool sophisticated modern weaponry? Because I want to shop there for myself.

[karder]

Mexico is currently one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and they have extremely strict gun control laws as well. Leave it to our elected officials to come to the conclusion that Mexico's national security problems are the fault of loose gun control laws in the USA. I am so sick of hearing about straw buyers. The drug trade is a multi-billion dollar industry. Who really thinks that these guys are buying guns one at a time from American straw buyers when they can get AK-47s by the boat load from China?

We have had over 500 drug related murders in Juarez since the start of this year, and just this week, the Department of Homeland Security issued a warning to all law enforcement officers in El Paso to be on heightened alert after Barrio Azteca gang members were arrested while scouting federal buildings here. The Barrio Aztecas are the US branch of the Aztecas gang in Juarez who are the street level enforcement arm of one of the major drug cartels in Juarez. The situation is not getting better. Mexico is on the edge of becoming a narco-democracy and without American intervention, (I mean DEA, CIA and Special Forces troops on the ground on Mexican soil) within two years they will be in the situation Columbia was in during the 80's. We don't need that on our border.

Ms. Clinton doesn't give a hoot about Mexico, she just wants to push her own agenda and capitalize off the situation. The corruption is so prevalent on both sides of the border and the law abiding citizens and the local law-enforcement officers on both sides are the ones who are paying the price. If the Mexican government would allow their citizens to arm and protect themselves, this ridiculous situation would come under control in very short order. Clinton's constant insinuations that our second amendment rights are in anyway to blame are outrageous.

[shootthesheet]

If Hillary, Obama and the progressive controlled Congress want to continue to make innuendos about mass gun smuggling across the boarder, that does not exist, we will have to go back to loudly letting the truth be known.

To say the firearms they are finding are "U.S. made" does not mean they were smuggled across the U.S. boarder. The rifles they are finding are from the MEXICAN Army deserters to include their police who are part of that military. The drug cartels also buy guns from other countries that may also be American made but were legally sold to nations by the U.S. Government to include Mexico.

Mrs. Clinton has done her best to tie this proposed effort to stop the very few illegally smuggled guns widely available in the U.S. to "cross-border money laundering and weapons trafficing". Which boarder? The story did not specify which boarder/s the weapons and drugs were being smuggled thru. The drugs may be being smuggled into the U.S. by Mexico to include corrupt Mexican officials that have been bribed but the guns are being smuggled across Mexico’s southern boarder thru Guatemala and Belize as well as being brought in by ship and even submarines the drug cartels have bought and built. The story states the cartels receive between "$25-$35 BILLION" a year from drug sales. The criminals don't need American "sporter firearms" that they would have to convert at their expense when they can simply buy M-16s, AK-47s and all other types of true automatic or select-fire military weapons as well as grenades and other explosive devices from other nations.

Is “Jose the immigrant worker” buying guns in the U.S. for personal protection or for his family so they can defend themselves or for their own criminal activity? I would say that is defiantly happening but most of what is being smuggled by these people and their American counterparts are those available on the streets of the U.S. from criminals. The guns range from hunting rifles to shotguns to handguns that are all legally bought and owned in the U.S. and then stolen making them illegal. What these immigrant workers or American criminals are doing is already against our law. Legal firearm ownership is strictly controlled in Mexico and can only be done after being licensed and the guns can only be bought at 2 available government stores in Mexico City. The problem is not American guns but Mexican criminals, corrupt Mexican officials and military officers. If Obama, Sec. Clinton and our rights steeling Congress want to help fight drug cartels over drugs and illegal guns the effort can only begin and end inside the borders of Mexico, Guatemala and Belize.

Most everything I sited is available thru the NRA-ILA web site. One example is here: http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . A simple web search should find many other examples of both media bias on this subject as well as documented facts from reputable sources.

[wheelgun1958]

An illegal alien is a 'prohibited person' as far as purchasing and possessing firearms in the US. So, another law broken. It doesn't end, Hillary. No matter how many laws you want passed.

[gigag04]

There actually have been many AR type rifles seized from MX cartels traced back up to straw buyers in Houston.

Not saying I completely agree with ol' Hill, but it's not completely made up either.

[glbedd53]

So the cartels buying guns from the straw buyers in Houston, is that legal?

[The Annoyed Man]

There actually have been many AR type rifles seized from MX cartels traced back up to straw buyers in Houston.

Not saying I completely agree with ol' Hill, but it's not completely made up either.

I'm sure it is not, and I am sure that that straw purchases do occur, and I'm sure that a lot of them occur at gun shows. That said, if a buyer is able to step up to the counter, produce the correct ID, and pass the NICS check, how is the seller in good conscience (assuming it isn't a private FTF transaction) going to have any idea whether the buyer is buying for the purposes of a straw purchase or not?

I'll draw an analogy... A guy with a clean record goes to see a doctor, claiming alleged back pain from lifting something too heavy in his garage. There are no witnesses. It isn't a workman's comp claim, and the exam is covered by his regular health insurance. It's a "soft-tissue" injury, so nothing shows on an x-ray, and the patient exhibits all the wincing and grimacing one would expect during the exam. The doctor prescribes hydrocodone and a powerful muscle relaxer. The prescriptions are filled at a Walmart pharmacy for $4 each. The "patient" goes out the door, makes a phone call, and sells each prescription on the street to an addict for $50 each - who robbed a liquor store to get the money to buy the drugs.

Hillary Clinton would hold the pharmaceutical company who made the hydrocodone, doctor who wrote the prescription, and the pharmacist who filled it responsible for the illegal sale of a street drug, when the real victim is the liquor store owner who was robbed to pay for the drugs, and the real perpetrators are the guy who faked the injury, and the thieving addict to whom he sold the drugs.

That's just dumb (of her).

[Keith B]

So the cartels buying guns from the straw buyers in Houston, is that legal?

If the buyer legitimately bought the gun for themselves, then sold it to a person who can legally purchase it, then it is not a straw purchase. However, if the person is buying the gun with the intent of turning around and selling it to someone, even someone who can legally purchase it, then it is considered a straw-man purchase and not legal.

[gemini]

if they're really worried about it (guns flooding Mex from the US), secure our southern border. Lock it up tight.
No more illegal aliens crossing into USA unopposed, no more drug runs walking across, no more huge flood of
straw puchases (which I doubt is the main source of cartel guns). Of course, this would be a common sense approach.
oooops. This is a Federal problem....throw common sense out the window.

[glbedd53]

I was just being ridiculous. One more time, they're gonna get the guns where ever they have to go to get them. It doesn't matter if they bought em from my grandmother, they're still gonna get em.

[casingpoint]

I learned one thing about Mexico for sure tonight. Next time I buy Mexican beer, it'll be Corona Extra and not Tecate. Ugh! Must be a close cousin of Schaeffer.

[Skydivesnake]

This is an interesting thread showing some of the firearms seized in Mexico;

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... %29/page32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The silver AR looks to be a 10.5in M4 (by comparing with the known 7.5in or so length of the upper receiver, and given the selector switch is past the vertical position) there is an MP5K there, a pre-1970 M-60 machine gun, South Korean hand grenades and South African 40mm grenades, and RPGs.

But the majority of people - especially Mexican - will look cluelessly at those pics and believe the US and Mex govts when they are told they are from the civilian market in the US, when in truth they are coming into Mexico along with the Cocaine from South America, and with the Heroin from Asia. Chavez has his own AK+ammo manufacturing plant in Venezuela and has a great relationship with the FARC rebels in Colombia which is the #1 source of Cocaine into Mexico, yet we are told the cartels are buying inferior semi-auto versions one at a time from the US ?!!

This thread talks about a ban on the sale of firearms within 250miles of the Mexican border. Granted, Clinton nixed that idea but it is telling that the idea was proposed and seriously tabled within that forum;

http://www.proceso.com.mx/rv/modHome/de ... siva/78723" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe the plan is to suggest the 250mile zone idea is absurd, such that a counter proposal next year of a 100mile zone sounds much more 'reasonable...' ?