Traveling by air- No checked baggage

[tboesche]

Later this month I will be flying via Frontier Airlines, to Spokane Washington to pick up my daughter and will be driving back to Texas. Since I am only going to be gone a couple days, I am not planning on taking any luggage. Just a back pack with a change of clothes and necessities. However, I do want to take my PT-111 with me for the drive back. I will need to check the weapon into the Air Force armory at Fairchild for 1 night, as my daughter lives on base.
Here is my dilema, since I wont be checking the back pack, how do I check just the weapon, ammo and mags. I am thinking about getting one of those small metal briefcase looking things that have locks on both of the latches and placing the gun and ammo inside. Is this a sufficient measure to secure the gun for travel? Should I put the gun in its factory case, lock it, and place that inside of the briefcase and then lock it as well? Does the TSA put any tags ON the case to identify that it has a weapon inside? Obviously I am concerned about theft.

Finally, since Washington does not recognise Texas CHL but is an Open Carry state, does anyone know off of the top of their heads how carry in a vehicle, must be accomplished? I am assuming that onpthe hip exposed is ok.

[Crossfire]

Ship the gun to your daughter, so it will be waiting for you when you arrive.

[ELB]

Rifles and shotguns get checked in their own cases all the time; the TSA and airline rules just require a hardsided, locked case, whether separately or inside another case. Luggage is NOT supposed to be marked as containing a firearm -- apparently that was done years and years ago, but thankfully no longer. Legally you could check the handgun in its own case. (TSA allows ammo to be in the same case as the handgun, but I think some airlines don't want this).

However, I would worry about some miscreant either a) recognizing it as a gun case, or b) just guessing that something that small would be an easy snatch, and c) shoving it under his coat and stealing it. Me, I would put the pistol inside it's factory case, lock it, and then put that is something that looks as little like it might contain a gun as possible, and is big enough that it wouldn't fit under a coat easily. Maybe a nice large "Hello, Kitty" piece of luggage from the local thrift store, with enough padding to keep it from rattling around. Even just a very sturdy cardboard box (don't forget to take packaging tape to the airport to seal it in box). You could just throw it away when you get to Spokane, if you don't need it any longer.

Make sure you check Frontier's website for their rules on transporting firearms AND ammo -- at least one airline (American) requires the ammo to be in a manufacturer's ammo box (I just put my magazines inside a Winchester box, again with padding, and tape it shut.)

I had thought of just shipping it to your daughter as well, but then you would have to go through an FFL, at least at that end - maybe both? Me, I'd fly with it, and since I had to check the gun, put the backpack in the same bag/box as the gun case just so I didn't have to wrastle with it on the plane. To each is own.

Good luck, and have a safe trip!

elb

[txmatt]

American requires that ammo be in a container that covers the primers and that it not be loose. For all practical purposes that dictates a factory box, but may also include magazines inside a holder that covers the primer. Best bet is to call the airline at the airport you will be flying out of the day before at about the time of your flight . Last time I flew with them they made me put my locked gun case into the backpack I was checking, but the time before that I checked it by itself. I think it pretty much depends on the counter agent you get.

[rm9792]

I thought you can ship to yourself without an FFL.

[seamusTX]

You can legally ship firearms to yourself without an FFL, but UPS and FedEx will not ship handguns to a non-licensed person, and the post office will not ship handguns.

- Jim

[tboesche]

You can legally ship firearms to yourself without an FFL, but UPS and FedEx will not ship handguns to a non-licensed person, and the post office will not ship handguns.

- Jim

The problem with shiping it is that my daughter lives on a military base. She could not recieve the weapon at her house. The other problem is that I will be arriving at around 11:00 PM local andd want to be on the road towards texas by 8:00 AM the next day. As it stands I have to check the gun into the base Armory that night and pick it up again first thing in the morning. I am thinkig that I will just lock it in its original case and put in a small suitcase with some clothes to keep it from rattling around.

[ELB]

American requires that ammo be in a container that covers the primers and that it not be loose. For all practical purposes that dictates a factory box, but may also include magazines inside a holder that covers the primer.

Since tboesche is flying Frontier, this is machts nichts to him, but in the interest of accuracy, AA's current policy as provided on their website is this (emphsis added):
http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/ ... rearms.jsp

The information shown below pertains to travel within the United States only (unless stated otherwise). For information on the transportation of firearms and ammunition to international destinations, please contact Reservations.

General Information
Firearms and ammunition are accepted as checked baggage only.
Firearms will only be accepted if unloaded and in a locked, hard-sided container only (for example - rifle case).
Ammunition must be packed in its original packaging. Loose ammunition or clips will not be accepted.
Firearms may not be checked curbside.
No one under 18 years of age may check a firearm.
Pellet and BB guns are not considered firearms, and therefore, do not require any special handling or documentation.

TSA policy on ammunition (emphasis added):
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1666.shtm

You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

...

Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition that you may have in your checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

[ELB]

OK, just to be complete, and since my wife will be flying Frontier later this year with her firearm, I checked their site, and came up with two slightly different statements of their policy. Their policy basically duplicates the TSA one:

http://www.frontierairlines.com/frontie ... avel.do#FA

All firearms must be declared to us during the ticket counter check-in process.
Firearms must be packed in a hard-sided, locked container or a hard-sided, locked gun case.
You must provide the key or combination to the security screener if it becomes necessary to open the container. The passenger must then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's packaging, fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines or clips don't satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it's properly packed as described above.
Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms aren't permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/frontie ... irearms.do

All firearms must be declared to us during the ticket counter check-in process.
Firearms must be packed in a hard-sided, locked container or a hard-sided, locked gun case. Up to five handguns or two rifles / shotguns may be in one locked container.
You must provide the key or combination to the security screener if it becomes necessary to open the container. You must then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
One passenger is allowed to check up to 11 pounds of ammunition.
Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's packaging, fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's packaging, fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ammunition clips and magazines must also be securely boxed. The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided locked case as the firearm, as long as it's properly packed as described above.
Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms aren't permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.

I always put my loaded magazines in a regular 50-round Winchester cardboard box, stuff in some padding, and tape it shut. That has worked with all the airlines I have flown.

[txmatt]

Ah, thanks. That must have been TSA policy I was thinking of. I always just put my ammo in a factory box in any case so that there are no questions.

Not a bad idea to print off your airline's policy and bring it along too, since counter agents often have their own ideas about what the policy is.

[jimlongley]

I am thinking about getting one of those small metal briefcase looking things that have locks on both of the latches and placing the gun and ammo inside. Is this a sufficient measure to secure the gun for travel? Should I put the gun in its factory case, lock it, and place that inside of the briefcase and then lock it as well? Does the TSA put any tags ON the case to identify that it has a weapon inside? Obviously I am concerned about theft.

Finally, since Washington does not recognize Texas CHL but is an Open Carry state, does anyone know off of the top of their heads how carry in a vehicle, must be accomplished? I am assuming that onpthe hip exposed is ok.

TSA does not put any marks on bags that identify them as containing firearms. Sounds like you have a good plan with the briefcase, if there's room inside for the factory box as well as ammo containers, that would be the best plan. I have seen many friearms go through in cases that contained nothing but the guns, and many of those cases were not readily identifiable as gun containers, the major exception being long guns.

Print a copy of the airline AND TSA regs and carry it on you, just in case there is any question.

[hirundo82]

Finally, since Washington does not recognise Texas CHL but is an Open Carry state, does anyone know off of the top of their heads how carry in a vehicle, must be accomplished? I am assuming that onpthe hip exposed is ok.

You cannot carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle in Washington unless you have a valid permit. If you leave an unloaded handgun in a vehilce, it must be locked up and out of sight.

RCW 9.41.050
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

[NcongruNt]

Finally, since Washington does not recognise Texas CHL but is an Open Carry state, does anyone know off of the top of their heads how carry in a vehicle, must be accomplished? I am assuming that onpthe hip exposed is ok.

You cannot carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle in Washington unless you have a valid permit. If you leave an unloaded handgun in a vehilce, it must be locked up and out of sight.

RCW 9.41.050
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

Yup. Washington does not have reciprocity with Texas. You would also be covered under the traveling clause in Federal law that states the same requirements. Unloaded in a locked case in the trunk. In case of no trunk, it cannot be immediately accessible or in the glove compartment.

hangunlaws.us has good info on reciprocity and laws on a per-state basis. The reciprocity map can be found here:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/maps/texas_map.gif

I would personally avoid driving down the West Coast, as you're going to be disarmed during half your trip that way. Idaho/Montana/Wyoming/Colorado/New Mexico is a good route, and scenic. If you like beautiful drives, I'd recommend taking 60/380 west of Roswell (New Mexico). You'll end up driving by the VLA (Very Large Array) which is a neat sight, as well as a field of wind turbines when you get to Texas (if you continue along 380).

189/191 southeast of Jackson WY is also a breathtaking drive - though for a practical route, you'll be driving through Yellowstone and The Grand Tetons, which would require you to unload and lock your gun up in the trunk to stay within Federal Law. It is a beautiful drive through both of those parks, though.

I would personally recommend against driving down the eastern portion of Arizona (through Navajo Nation), as the scenery was somewhat disappointing and I got panhandled every time I made a stop going through there. I'm not sure what the laws are like there regarding carrying, but from what I have found, firearms are strictly prohibited. Unfortunately, I can find no online text of the Navajo Tribal Code - though I have found references to Title 17, Section 1451 of the Code regarding firearms restrictions.

Anyhow, check out the carry laws for all the states you'll be driving through. I'd recommend printing them out (and quick guides of the basics) for reference when traveling. Enjoy your trip!