What is reliability in a handgun?

[MoJo]

I read statements like this all the time - - - - I've had my Super Blasto All Polymer Nickle Plated Series XYZ in 100 MM for six months and I have 500 malfunction free rounds. My question to you is - - - How were these rounds fired? 5 trips to the range shooting 100 rounds at a time? One marathon 500 round blast fest? Slowly and deliberately or trying to burn the barrel out. Clean and lubricated or, full of crud and dry? Cool or so hot you can't touch the metal?

All this enters into that nebulous region called "Reliability." A gun that runs reliably under optimum conditions can be called reliable. A gun that runs reliably under all conditions is combat reliable. How do we determine which ours is?

Here's what I do. Any new or new to me gun that's for carry first gets a thorough cleaning and inspection then its off to the range with 200 rounds of ammo. After this first 200 round break in session it gets another detail cleaning and inspection. The gun has proven to me it is reliable. Next comes the hard but fun part I run 500 rounds through it in one day some as fast as I can pull the trigger others slow and deliberate I want the gun to get hot, sling the oil off, turn black from powder fouling and still shoot. At the end of the 500 rounds, if it's still 100%, I give it the final test - - - 2 mags of my chosen SD ammo as fast as I can fire then a 10 shot group with the SD stuff to verify accuracy. If after all this the gun is still running 100% I call it COMBAT RELIABLE.

I know that's a lot of ammo to burn up and at today's prices unless you reload you'll have to take out a home equity loan to do it. Remember only you can set a price tag on your life. I'm expensive.

[seamusTX]

The real test is whether you can carry it in a holster in hot weather, soaked in sweat and accumulating lint for six months, and then have it fire a full magazine.

- Jim

[gfmun]

I think cleaning and accuracy are over rated in a carry gun. With my competition gun, I clean it every 2 or 3 or 4 matches for sure. If I have an important match coming up, I clean it one match before, not just before. On the competition gun, accuracy is important. It needs to shoot at least better than I do.

The carry gun, the truck gun, the EDC gun, what ever you call it needs to fire when requested. Not 2 mags, not 1 inch groups at 7 yards, maybe 2-3 rounds at Center of Mass at 10 feet. I am probably not going to use the sights anyways if the situation comes up. They need to be " loose " enough to go BANG when requested, dirty or not. To me the real important part is the magazine. My carry gun mags have never hit the ground.

Just my $ .02

thanks,
George

[MoJo]

The real test is whether you can carry it in a holster in hot weather, soaked in sweat and accumulating lint for six months, and then have it fire a full magazine.

- Jim

I doubt many would carry a gun that long under those conditions without at least blowing the lint off. I doubt a lot of the 1911 and other all steel pistols in people's holsters would fire after such abuse including those I own.

Sub Zero temperatures are harder on guns and lubes than hot and wet. I have read accounts of GIs having to urinate on their weapons to get them to thaw enough to function during the Battle of the Bulge and in Korea.

[NcongruNt]

My general rule is at least 200 rounds, no problem before I carry it. The way they are shot is varied, some in slow fire, some in drawing, moving, and shooting drills, some weak-handed fire, etc. The point of the exercise is to find any weak points and see if they are a mechanical problem or a handling problem. I also put a couple of boxes of carry ammo through it to verify reliability with a particular round.

Once a gun is put in carry status, it continues to get range practice to verify its reliability. My regular carry gun (an Argentine Hi-Power FM-90) is approaching 2000 rounds without a problem, aside from a squib WWB, which was not the fault of the gun. That number would be probably around 3000 rounds were it not for the recent scarcity and expense of ammo to feed it, causing a hiatus of regular range trips.

My BUG (Ruger LCP) gets the same treatment, and has something like 500 rounds or so down the pipe with no problems. It's nearly impossible to practice with these days due to the nearly complete unavailability of range ammo.

Not all of my guns have been problem free. In particular, my first carry gun (an FEG-PA-63) had significan feeding issues with the HP ammo I fed it when I first got it. 9x18 offers litttle selection for carry ammo, most of which is steel-cased Russian stuff. Fortunately, I had a few months to work out the kinds while waiting on my CHL, and found that Hornady XTP (in fact the only good-quality 9x18 carry ammo available in 9x18) feeds beautifully in the gun, and I had something suitable for carry before my license came in the mail. I had about 100 problem-free rounds of XTP down the PA-63 (along with several hundred rounds of S&B range ammo that feeds well) through the gun before I got around to carrying it.

If at all possible, it's quite important to make sure a carry gun operates reliably before carrying it. In reality, this may not be possible in all situations, but care should be taken to verify the gun runs right ASAP and as circumstances allow.

[seamusTX]

The real test is whether you can carry it in a holster in hot weather, soaked in sweat and accumulating lint for six months, and then have it fire a full magazine.

I doubt many would carry a gun that long under those conditions without at least blowing the lint off.

Some of us are lazy.

The situation is similar to a new driver with a new car. For the first couple of years, he washes and waxes it, checks the tires, has the oil changed on schedule, etc., etc. But after a while, it's banged up, dirty, and full of junk.

Sub Zero temperatures are harder on guns and lubes than hot and wet.

Lubricants have improved quite a bit in 60 years, and we're talking here about carry pieces, not rifles.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

The real test is whether you can carry it in a holster in hot weather, soaked in sweat and accumulating lint for six months, and then have it fire a full magazine.

- Jim

I fully agree. I want to pull it out of my sweaty Crossbreed with accumulated t-shirt lint all over it and hear it go bang when I aim it at something.

[CompVest]

I feel very comfortable carrying any of my competition guns. If they can stand up to the practice sessions they can stand up to anything. In fact if I don't think a gun is good enough to compete with it isn't good enough to stake my life on. I want to know where all of my shots are going exactly not just the general direction they are going.

[The Annoyed Man]

With the exception of an M1A which still needs cleaning since the last range trip (and which, obviously is not a carry weapon; and still hasn't been cleaned pending other issues with it), I usually clean and lube my weapons after every range trip. It might not be that day, but it will be soon after. If it is one I am going to be carrying, then it get's cleaned before carry.

I don't feel like I need to fire thousands of rounds though a new pistol in order to establish reliability, and my life is not cheap either.

I take a new gun to the range, run 150-200 rounds of practice ammo through it, and if it runs well, then I'll fire a couple of magazines of SD ammo through it. If it digests the SD ammo, then I'm good to go and I don't worry about it anymore.

My guns accumulate lint, pretty much like anyone else's. During summer, I'll get sweat on a pistol, although "soaked in sweat" would be a gross exaggeration. I inspect my carry pistols periodically between range trips for lint/dirt. If a rag and a Q-tip will take care of it, I wipe them down. If it looks worse than that, I'll strip and clean them. BUT... I am not anal about this stuff.

All of my carry pistols go to the range with me, and they all get fired. 50 to 100 rounds of practice ammo through each one is enough to satisfy me. Also, when I clean them, I inspect and function test them.

And then I move on with my life.

[seamusTX]

..."soaked in sweat" would be a gross exaggeration.

There are days when I can wring sweat out of my clothes. Maybe it's the coastal humidity.

- Jim

[The Annoyed Man]

..."soaked in sweat" would be a gross exaggeration.

There are days when I can wring sweat out of my clothes. Maybe it's the coastal humidity.

- Jim

I understand, it's just that as bad as it can get around here in the DFW metroplex, it isn't usually bad enough to soak a gun... ...or maybe I'm not working hard enough?

[seamusTX]

You may recall that I ride a bicycle for transportation sometimes. They haven't figured out how to air-condition bicycles yet.

- Jim

[stroo]

Reliability is an interesting question. I have a Rossi 44 special that works fine until I put about 40-50 rounds through it. Never a problem before 40 rounds. But at some point after 40 rounds, it gets dirty enough that the cylinder won't turn. Then I clean it and it is good for at least 40 more rounds.

So as long as it starts clean, it is fully reliable for when I might need it, the first 20 rounds of a fight (doubt I could reload more than 3 times) and completely unreliable after 40 rounds. Is it reliable enough or not?

[seamusTX]

I have a Rossi 44 special that works fine until I put about 40-50 rounds through it. Never a problem before 40 rounds. But at some point after 40 rounds, it gets dirty enough that the cylinder won't turn.

What kind of ammunition do you use?

Revolvers are touchy that way, but 40 rounds sounds to be on the low side.

- Jim

[G.A. Heath]

my primary carry still has not changed, even with the addition and break in of two nicer guns (Kimbers). This particular gun, along with six shooters, turned 2000 rounds of brand new .45 auto ammunition into reloadable brass as part of a dinner bet. The bet was that the six month old Glock 19 would keep working after mine failed. Between the six of us involved in this bet we had enough money to buy 2000 rounds of .45 auto, and 2000 rounds of 9x19. It took all day with all six of us shooting both guns to go through all the ammo and learn that neither gun experienced a single failure other than one 9mm round was a slow fire. Both my RIA CS and Dougs G19 were pulled from their holsters for this failed experiment. I will say that the only three regrets I have from that whole experiment was using up all that ammo a few months before the Obama Rush, cleaning the gun afterwards, and my hands hurting the next day. So is my primary carry weapon reliable? I think so, but I doubt I will repeat this stupidity with any other gun I own.