Converting a Gun Loan Into a Purchase

[AlaskanInTexas]

Got asked a random question that I don't know the answer to. My friend - a Texas resident - borrowed a handgun from his cousin - a Montana resident - to try it out for a bit. The gun is now in Texas. Fast forward. My friend has become enamored with the gun and his cousin needs some cash and would like to sell it to him. To make this legal, does my friend need to take the gun back to his cousin in Montana to run it through a Montana FFL to a Texas FFL? Or can he send it from a Texas FFL to a Montana FFL back to a Texas FFL?

[RoyGBiv]

My guess....

Next time his friend is in town, walk in to a TX FFL and make the transfer.
I believe the gun in the MT friends hand is fine in TX (unloaded if he's going to ask a FFL to fondle it).
MT guy hands gun to FFL, FFL does paperwork, FFL hands gun to TX guy.

Just my opinion. IANAL.

[bdickens]

To make this legal, all your friend needs to do is send the agreed-upon amount of money to his cousin.

[C-dub]

Transfer of possession of the gun has already illegally occurred, I think. To minimize or preempt any charges and make the whole thing legal it must be done through an FFL as soon as possible. Hopefully, I am wrong and one of our friendly FFLs will correct me.

[Dave2]

Transfer of possession of the gun has already illegally occurred, I think.

I'm not an FFL or anything, but I can't imagine how this could be illegal (assuming they can both legally own guns). I think it would be if the democrats had gotten their way with news gun control laws, but AFAIK, such draconian measures only gained any traction at all in a few east-coast states and CA. And even there, I'm not sure that it'd be illegal.

[RoyGBiv]

My understanding is that if the handgun crosses state lines in a sale, it MUST go through an FFL, unless the transfer is via an inheritance and there's a death certificate to prove it.

I'm not even slightly familiar with the definition of a "loaned" firearm, so I'm not gonna make any guesses as to whether the current arrangement has violated any laws. All of the failed recent gun legislation, as well as the enacted NY SAFE act would make a long term loan a big no-no.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-fre ... ed-persons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

ETA.... Note the use of the word "obtain". I ASSUME that includes a "loan". Based on reading this, I'm guessing the "loan" was a violation.

I am not a lawyer. This is my OPINION, not legal advice.

[OldCannon]

Oh boy. This one has /facepalm written all over it.

I'll ask some of my colleagues. Off the top of my head, I don't see a way to _legally_ undo something that was done illegally. Not in a way that any FFL that wants to keep their license would approve of.

[C-dub]

Remember guys, the transfer occurred between two people that are residents of different states. I realize they were both in the same state when the transfer occurred, but I didn't think that mattered. Also, I don't think the exchange of money has anything to do with the legality of the transfer. It could be given away and would still have to go through an FFL if being transferred across state lines.

[jmra]

Seems to me a prosecutor would be reluctant to even touch something like this. Finding 12 people in TX that would convict an otherwise legal cousin to cousin transfer seems like a tall order.
Handguns can and often do legally find their way from person to person state to state without ever going thru a FFL. The first handgun I ever purchased has gone thru several family members in various states. All transactions were legal and none went thru a FFL. The current owner recently sent me a pic of it from its current home in GA.
Given the fact that there is no legal requirement to document a private sale, proving that this was an illegal transfer (without a confession) would be near impossible. More than likely the way someone is going to get caught in an illegal transfer is by running their mouth about it or selling the firearm to an undercover agent.

[MoJo]

This is a FEDERAL matter, and it will be prosecuted in a FEDERAL court with a FEDERAL prosecutor. All bets are off concerning a Texas prosecutor because if it goes that far, it could end up in Montana. All I have to say is I'm glad it's not me.

[jmra]

This is a FEDERAL matter, and it will be prosecuted in a FEDERAL court with a FEDERAL prosecutor. All bets are off concerning a Texas prosecutor because if it goes that far, it could end up in Montana. All I have to say is I'm glad it's not me.

Have any links to similar cases that were prosecuted?

[OldCannon]

The most-honest solution is for the Montana resident to come back and retrieve the handgun he accidentally left in Texas, which is safely stored at his cousin's home.

[Keith B]

To make this legal, all your friend needs to do is send the agreed-upon amount of money to his cousin.

That would be the correct answer. Currently, we do not have to register private gun purchases with the government. You are free to sell your gun to anyone that can legally own a firearm (non-class 3). For the seller's protection, transferring through a FFL will "reset" the ownership of the gun and limit the liability of future transfers of the gun.

Of course, that is my understanding of the current laws as they apply to Texas. I am not an attorney, and I don't play one on TV.

Wrong, must go through an FFL in Texas. An individual may not purchase a gun of any type from an unlicensed individual in anothter state without the transfer coming through and inbound state FFL.

[Keith B]

The most-honest solution is for the Montana resident to come back and retrieve the handgun he accidentally left in Texas, which is safely stored at his cousin's home.

Actually, the loan was perfectly legal.

From http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-fre ... d-transfer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

And, if the MT cousin comes to Texas, he cna hand the gun to an FFL and the FFL can make the transfer to the Texas cousin.

Now, in a gray area, since they are relatives, he could just continue to keep the loaned gun and gift his cousin the money he needs becuase he is in need of cash. However, it would have to be understood that if the MT cousin ever wanted the gun from loan he would have to give it back.