Concealed Carry NEAR a jail or in a building on state jail property

[E.Marquez]

If researched the common sites, documents we commonly cite or refer others to.
I've searched here.
Pretty sure Im on the right track.. but 10,000 sets of eyes and experiences are better then one old pair.

What i think I know:
Concealed carry within 1000 feet of a prison is not illagle unless there is a scheduled execution that day.
Concealed carry on or near state jail property not otherwise in a secured area is NOT illegal
Concealed carry in a non secured building on state jail property is NOT illegal.

I can find no statutory law prohibiting Concealed carry in or near a jail, on the general property nor in a building that one does not have to pass through metal detectors, guard point, search.
Am I missing something?

Going to a TDJ academy graduation today in Gatesville..it is ON state jail property, in a outbuilding used for training. TDJ employees are prohibited from carrying at work, but that is a condition of employment, not law. (They can keep weapon doubled secured in a car on property in the parking lot)

I don't find any prohibition for me and my LTC... Correct?
Id prefer to not be walked from the site of graduation to the reception alcove.

[imkopaka]

It is a felony to bring a firearm inside the secure perimeter of any correctional facility. The parking lots of correctional facilities are not open to the public due to the plethora of possible security breaches that can occur. Members of the public who are allowed visitation into the unit have to follow the unit rules, which includes no firearms anywhere past the highway gate. If a visiting guest is found to be in violation of this rule, their visitation privileges will be permanently revoked and they can never return. While correctional officers in Texas are not peace officers and cannot arrest anyone, we typically have good relations with local law enforcement and will get them on-site rapidly to deal with anyone on the premises who shouldn't be there. Additionally, once you drive onto jail or prison property your vehicle is subject to search. If you refuse a search you will not be allowed to stay. Vehicle searches don't happen that often, but they do happen.

Bottom line: I wouldn't bring it. If you do bring it, put it behind two locks. If an offender got it in his head to break into your vehicle (and yes, it's happened before - there are offenders who work outside the perimeter in the area where you're going to be, so they don't even have to escape for this to be possible), he could get your weapon and use it for all manner of evil. A trigger lock or cable lock, or better yet, a locked case or locked glovebox, in addition to locked vehicle doors and rolled up windows, is the best way to ensure that even if an offender were to gain access to your vehicle, he cannot even use your weapon to intimidate. Also, don't leave your car unlocked or you will likely come back to find that it was searched without your consent.

Source: been working with TDC for the last 3 years.

[E.Marquez]

It is a felony to bring a firearm inside the secure perimeter of any correctional facility. The parking lots of correctional facilities are not open to the public due to the plethora of possible security breaches that can occur. .

Thank you for the response

Not an argument,,but discussion.

It is a felony to bring a firearm inside the secure perimeter of any correctional facility.

Understand...and why I was specific when I stated this is NOT a secured area. And can you provide a cite for the law you're referencing? I can not.

The parking lots of correctional facilities are not open to the public due to the plethora of possible security breaches that can occur.

I have been to 4 state correctional facilities, all of the parking lots were open to the public, no signage, no guards, no gates....
WHat facility are you referencing that the parking lot is not open to the public? Guarded? restricted? And again, for my edification, can you cite the law that supports this?

What Im finding with the many TDJ folks I have net in the last year is, they quote what they have been told, taught, instructed.. but when I ask for a cite..... they have nothing.... I think what they tell me is well intention ..no malice at all... Just not factual.

I will likely leave my weapon in my vehicle... and yes I know the locked car rule and double locked weapon. I installed safes in all four of our vehicles 6 weeks ago so my wife could have her weapon at academy..

[imkopaka]

Sorry I'm a bit scatter brained and pressed for time lately so earlier I just tried to get as much information out as quickly as I could.

Here's the reference for bringing a firearm onto a correctional facility. Because of the dangerous possibility of an offender taking a firearm and using it, we will not even allow a uniformed, on-duty peace officer to bring his weapons or ammo inside the perimeter, and have secure storage boxes outside the perimeter for official use. We actually had an officer argue with our perimeter bosses about it one time and even though he had official business to conduct inside, we turned him away because he refused to relinquish his weapon. We were unofficially commended for our courage in the face of perceived authority.

TEX PE. CODE ANN. § 38.11 : Texas Statutes - Section 38.11: PROHIBITED SUBSTANCES AND ITEMS IN ADULT OR JUVENILE CORRECTIONAL OR DETENTION FACILITY OR ON PROPERTY OF TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE OR TEXAS YOUTH COMMISSION
Text of subsection as amended by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1092 Sec. 1

(a) A person commits an offense if the person provides:

(1) an alcoholic beverage, controlled substance, or dangerous drug to an inmate of a correctional facility, except on the prescription of a physician or practitioner, as defined in Section 551.003, Occupations Code;

(2) a deadly weapon to an inmate of a correctional facility;

(3) a cellular telephone or other wireless communications device or a component of one of those devices, cigarette, tobacco product, or money to an inmate of a correctional facility operated by or under contract with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice;

(4) a cellular telephone or money to a person confined in a local jail regulated by the Commission on Jail Standards; or

(5) a cigarette or tobacco product to a person confined in a local jail regulated by the Commission on Jail Standards and in providing the cigarette or tobacco product the person violates a rule or regulation adopted by the sheriff or jail administrator that:

(A) prohibits the possession of a cigarette or tobacco product by an inmate confined in the jail; or

(B) places restrictions on:

(i) the possession of a cigarette or tobacco product by an inmate confined in the jail; or

(ii) the manner in which a cigarette or tobacco product may be provided to an inmate confined in the jail.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person takes an alcoholic beverage, controlled substance, or dangerous drug into a correctional facility or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for delivery to a facility warehouse, pharmacy, or physician.

(c) A person commits an offense if the person takes a controlled substance or dangerous drug on property owned, used, or controlled by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Youth Commission, or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for delivery to a warehouse, pharmacy, or physician on property owned, used, or controlled by the department, the commission, or the facility.

(d) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) possesses a controlled substance or dangerous drug while:

(A) on property owned, used, or controlled by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Youth Commission, or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles; or

(B) in a correctional facility or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles; or

(2) possesses a deadly weapon while in a correctional facility or in a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles.

....

(g) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree.

I understand that you aren't going into a secure area, but I wanted to provide the precedent so you got an idea of the general outlook on guns in a correctional setting. Knowing how seriously they look on guns inside the perimeter should give you an idea of how they feel about them outside the perimeter. Notice also that when referring to drugs the law makes repeated mention of "property owned, used, or controlled by [correctional agency]". The parking lot of a correctional facility is regulated to one degree or another. Typically due to the state-wide staffing crisis we don't have the manpower to put someone at the highway gate, but every unit I've ever been to has a guardhouse and locking gate at the entrance to the parking lot. At the entrance to every unit parking lot is a large yellow sign explaining that by proceeding past said sign you agree to submit to search. TDCJ takes security very seriously even outside the secure perimeter. Anything on state prison property is controlled.

While I can't reference a law on the subject of public access, it's one of those things where (from my understanding) if you don't have business there, leave. Our Mobile Patrol unit will immediately investigate any vehicle in our parking lot that isn't identified as staff or a visitor on a visitation day, and if they have no business there he will tell them to leave. If they don't, the highest ranking supervisor present (usually a Lieutenant at night and the Warden during the day) will tell them to leave. If they refuse the local PD are called because someone with no official business on the premises is a security risk. There is a pretty wide berth on that. Anything that is deemed a security risk is dealt with swiftly and without compromise. I'm honestly not sure if there is law behind that or if it is just a combination of common sense and agency policy.

I find that much of what we are taught is factual, it is simply that so many officers are...shall we say entry-level, that the laws are not taught because they would be immediately forgotten. These are typically the kind of...employees that need refresher courses on how to work handcuffs...and then they still get it wrong. The average LTC holder is a genius by comparison to the average TDC officer. Obviously there are exceptions to both, but you get what I mean, right? I wasn't taught the laws surrounding this stuff because the average IQ isn't high enough to need a "1" at the start. As such, I try to teach what will result in the fewest potential problems, even if it isn't supported.

That's another thing you should know about TDC officers. We are used to dealing with offenders all day: uneducated thugs with attitude problems and a severe case of entitlement mentality. As a general rule, "I'm right, you're wrong, shut up, go away" is the mindset of an officer because let's face it, most of the time when dealing with an offender it's true. Unfortunately, this mentality doesn't like to go away. We tend to apply it subconsciously to every interaction especially if in uniform. If you get in an argument with an on-duty CO, you're going to lose because he doesn't believe in defeat. When that happens, you will be escorted from the premises - by local PD or the sheriff if necessary. Not trying to say that's right, just telling it like it is.

Hope this was more helpful. Not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to prepare you for the reality of what you may find when you go.

By the way, as you've noticed I use TDC and TDCJ interchangeably so it doesn't matter to me, but the official name is now TDCJ (Texas Department of Criminal Justice), not TDC (Texas Department of Corrections). It was changed when the state restructured and included parole offices and a few other agencies with the prison system.

[casp625]

How about Texas PC 46.035:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

[GlassG19]

It is a felony to bring a firearm inside the secure perimeter of any correctional facility. The parking lots of correctional facilities are not open to the public due to the plethora of possible security breaches that can occur. .

Thank you for the response

Not an argument,,but discussion.

It is a felony to bring a firearm inside the secure perimeter of any correctional facility.

Understand...and why I was specific when I stated this is NOT a secured area. And can you provide a cite for the law you're referencing? I can not.

The parking lots of correctional facilities are not open to the public due to the plethora of possible security breaches that can occur.

I have been to 4 state correctional facilities, all of the parking lots were open to the public, no signage, no guards, no gates....
WHat facility are you referencing that the parking lot is not open to the public? Guarded? restricted? And again, for my edification, can you cite the law that supports this?

What Im finding with the many TDJ folks I have net in the last year is, they quote what they have been told, taught, instructed.. but when I ask for a cite..... they have nothing.... I think what they tell me is well intention ..no malice at all... Just not factual.

I will likely leave my weapon in my vehicle... and yes I know the locked car rule and double locked weapon. I installed safes in all four of our vehicles 6 weeks ago so my wife could have her weapon at academy..

Mr. Marquez, not changing conversation here, just grasped your comment. "installed safes in all 4 cars so your wife could have her weapon at Academy" does your Academy have .06 & .07 signs up? That tells me your wife is leaving her EDC in lock box in the car because she can not take it inside.
My Academy does not. Curious why you'd need lock boxes to go to Academy.

[Keith B]

Mr. Marquez, not changing conversation here, just grasped your comment. "installed safes in all 4 cars so your wife could have her weapon at Academy" does your Academy have .06 & .07 signs up? That tells me your wife is leaving her EDC in lock box in the car because she can not take it inside.
My Academy does not. Curious why you'd need lock boxes to go to Academy.

I believe he means 'Texas Department of Justice Law Enforcement Academy', not 'Academy Sports and Outdoors' store.

[The Annoyed Man]

Mr. Marquez, not changing conversation here, just grasped your comment. "installed safes in all 4 cars so your wife could have her weapon at Academy" does your Academy have .06 & .07 signs up? That tells me your wife is leaving her EDC in lock box in the car because she can not take it inside.
My Academy does not. Curious why you'd need lock boxes to go to Academy.

I believe he means 'Texas Department of Justice Law Enforcement Academy', not 'Academy Sports and Outdoors' store.

I see what happened here.

The mystery of the missing "the".......

[majorr]

I have been working in prisons in the State of Texas for 20 years. Many facilities DO have a guard shack at the main entrance of the facility. Most facilities also have a mobile patrol vehicle that patrols the perimeter of the facility to include the parking lots making them "secure area" IMO. My facility has NO "highway gate" but DOES have a mobile patrol that drives through the facility parking lot every few minutes. Since I am part of the administration, I would not have any issues with a CHL holder (non employee) having his weapon either on him concealed or in his car while in my parking lot. With that said, company policy states that staff will not carry a weapon (CHL) on them while on our property, period. They can have one in their vehicle if it is under double lock and key.

All of my buildings are behind the fence so by law there will be no weapons in ANY building on this facility. However, some TDCJ units have their training academy located prior to you reaching the "highway gate" or the actual facility. Therefore I would say if I did not work for the prison system, had a chl, did not go into the actual secure area of the prison, I would definitely consider carrying. I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE A LAWYER OR KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THE LAW so I am completely open to being corrected if I'm wrong.

AGAIN, this is just my opinion.

[casp625]

How about Texas PC 46.035:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

TPC46.035 (f)(3) for clarification of premises.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Of course, IANAL.

Yes, and that! Typing on mobile

OP, how did the event turn out yesterday? After I reread your post, it seems you weren't at a correctional facility at all, but rather their training building. You should have been A-OK, no?

[E.Marquez]

Mr. Marquez, not changing conversation here, just grasped your comment. "installed safes in all 4 cars so your wife could have her weapon at Academy" does your Academy have .06 & .07 signs up? That tells me your wife is leaving her EDC in lock box in the car because she can not take it inside.
My Academy does not. Curious why you'd need lock boxes to go to Academy.

I believe he means 'Texas Department of Justice Law Enforcement Academy', not 'Academy Sports and Outdoors' store.

Yes correct, Not the sports store, The Texas Department of Justice of which she is now an officer of...Sorry for the confusion.

[E.Marquez]

OP, how did the event turn out yesterday? After I reread your post, it seems you weren't at a correctional facility at all, but rather their training building. You should have been A-OK, no?

Yes correct there were units before and after, next to but we were in one of three buildings used for training not on the "premises" of an actual unit.

And thanks for asking it went fine.. I asked a Major, 4 sergeants and a LT "Can a valid LTC holder have a concealed weapon in this building"
I got YES, I don't know, and We don't like Civilians having a gun here. To which I responded I don't like having to be in the proximity of criminals but neither of us really have much of a choice today
SO the answer depended on the position the responder held on civilian ownership and rights to carry. Even the Gun for me and not for thee one was not willing or able to cite why it was "not allowed" just a Because I say so...to which the Sergeant standing next to him said I was fine....it's discouraged as we know not everyone will maintain control and correct use of the gun..but legally as long as you don't go into a unit passed the gate there is nothing we can do... and was I carrying We had a nice chat. All spoken to were polite and professional (though I feel the one was professionally wrong

[GlassG19]

Mr. Marquez, not changing conversation here, just grasped your comment. "installed safes in all 4 cars so your wife could have her weapon at Academy" does your Academy have .06 & .07 signs up? That tells me your wife is leaving her EDC in lock box in the car because she can not take it inside.
My Academy does not. Curious why you'd need lock boxes to go to Academy.

I believe he means 'Texas Department of Justice Law Enforcement Academy', not 'Academy Sports and Outdoors' store.

Yep, understand, the wording sounded as he mean A.S.&O. I thought to myself, what Academy is she going to.

[puma guy]

It is a felony to bring a firearm inside the secure perimeter of any correctional facility. The parking lots of correctional facilities are not open to the public due to the plethora of possible security breaches that can occur. Members of the public who are allowed visitation into the unit have to follow the unit rules, which includes no firearms anywhere past the highway gate. If a visiting guest is found to be in violation of this rule, their visitation privileges will be permanently revoked and they can never return. While correctional officers in Texas are not peace officers and cannot arrest anyone, we typically have good relations with local law enforcement and will get them on-site rapidly to deal with anyone on the premises who shouldn't be there. Additionally, once you drive onto jail or prison property your vehicle is subject to search. If you refuse a search you will not be allowed to stay. Vehicle searches don't happen that often, but they do happen.

Bottom line: I wouldn't bring it. If you do bring it, put it behind two locks. If an offender got it in his head to break into your vehicle (and yes, it's happened before - there are offenders who work outside the perimeter in the area where you're going to be, so they don't even have to escape for this to be possible), he could get your weapon and use it for all manner of evil. A trigger lock or cable lock, or better yet, a locked case or locked glovebox, in addition to locked vehicle doors and rolled up windows, is the best way to ensure that even if an offender were to gain access to your vehicle, he cannot even use your weapon to intimidate. Also, don't leave your car unlocked or you will likely come back to find that it was searched without your consent.

Source: been working with TDC for the last 3 years.

I visited Ramsey unit last Sunday. There is a check point on FM 655 a mile or two from the prisons for three units. The units are now Ramsey, Terrell and Stringfellow, but in the past were Ramsey I, II and III . The only sign at the visitor check point states firearms must be unloaded and secured. I always have my CCW secured and out of sight in the trunk, so I don't worry about it. I had never seen it before and was going to take a picture of it,but there were several cars waiting behind us. Other units I have visited over the course of 23 years have no check point anywhere except entering the prison to visit, the parking lots are open to the public.