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Pawpaw wrote:The sonic crack isn't going to amount to anything compared to the blast of firing.

A 1911 with 230gr FMJ is subsonic. I forgot my ear protection one time shooting outdoors. The first (and only) shot from a 3" barrel rang my ears so bad they hurt.

Needless to say, I laid the pistol down and walked back to the house to retrieve my muffs.

Well, I carry the lesser manly 9 mm and rest assured, the difference between sub and supersonic is noticeable indoors. A car is considered indoors for me. Outdoors is a whole different story because sound waves don't reflect in air. The sonic boom is apart from the initial blast when the gases expand but only visible on a graph. The human ear and successive the brain can't sense the time difference between the two "booms". But the sum of the subsequent noises add up on the eardrum and can cause serious damage including hearing loss. So why would I go for 115 gr +P+ instead of 147 gr subsonic? A car shooting, as discussed in this thread, happens inside the car from the shooter perspective which puts the shooter indoor while the target is outdoor. That said, the worst case would be if you miss the attacker outside but your hearing is damaged because you've been inside.

Hey y'all, don't take my comment to serious. This is just my opinion but I'd suggest to try 5 rounds sub sonic and compare it with 5 rounds of +P+ when you are in an indoor range next time. Use just standard foam plugs and you'll hear what I mean.
As Pawpaw said, your ears will hurt from a subsonic blast outdoors using a .45 with a 230 gr load. As we all know, a 9 mm produces a sharper crack and indoors in your car, the sound will reflect and add pressure to the ear drums. That is a given fact and my point is just to reduce the affect as much as possible. I do not recommend anybody should test this scenario. This is basic physics. Also, a person with hearing problems already caused by 800 Watt speakers may handle a situation like this better than a person with sensitive hearing.

Cheers

treadlightly wrote:I understand the sonic crack is significant noise, but is there a difference in the report of a supersonic round travelling 50 feet versus 2? Seems like there would be.

I can't really remember hearing a longer lasting bang while shooting at 50 yards vs. shooting close range like 3 yards.

treadlightly wrote:Would subsonic versus supersonic make much difference? The bullet is going to travel a couple of feet and either stop or exit the vehicle. Either way, the track of the sonic boom is short.

Well, inside a car the difference in terms of noise is surely more significant than in an outdoor range. Try a few rounds of subsonic and a few rounds of supersonic bullets next time you are in an indoor range.
And who has ear protection in a real world scenario? My carry round is subsonic, it may not be as effective as +P+ but my hearing may stay intact should I ever get in a situation where I actually have to discharge a gun for self-defense.
Last but not least, according to actual statistics most gun related incidents are indoors.
Should I have missed something please let me know. THX.

Pawpaw wrote:Did you read the account of the Brown shooting in MO last year? Brown had ahold of the officer's pistol and it would not fire at first. Presumably, Brown had pushed the slide out of battery.

These are moot points though. It is impossible to cover all eventualities. An old military saying is that no plan survives first contact. You do the best you can, but just know there will almost always be unforeseen events.

I did not read that particular part but I agree to the fact a semi automatic handgun would be disabled if the slide is pushed back.
The article I was reading was slightly different. It stated Brown wanted to take the officers gun while they were wrestling in the car and two rounds discharged. One round went into Brown's hand and the other was stuck somewhere in the car.

Agreed, a close encounter with a gun can go either way and pulling it from concealment could be a disadvantage.

ammoboy2 wrote:It was mentioned above the disadvantage of a semiauto in a clinch due to getting it out of battery (due to being pressed against opponent) and unable to fire. The revolver has a similar issue, if the opponent has a grip on the cylinder which prevents rotation of the cylinder not allowing it to fire. I really see no intrinsic advantage, use what you like, both work.

Good point and btw, I keep a round in the chamber and it will go off and out the barrel in a semi automatic handgun and that should loosen the grip on the slide.

ghostrider wrote:If I'm forced to shoot while in a car, I'll be less concerned with the brass than:
(a) hitting the target
(b) my hearing

a) hard to achive holding a gun sideways.
b) subsonic loads can reduce the damage to the humans eardrums.

doncb wrote:I would think that the potential for a case coming back and hitting you would be pretty small. Not saying it couldn't happen...
A more serious and very real consideration with a revolver though is the gas / flame and burning powder blowing out between the cylinder and barrel. If you're shooting at someone through the drivers window, imagine where you would be holding the gun and where that gas, etc would be going. Unless you have a gas seal revolver there's no getting around it.

That was my first thought too. I can imagine a short barrel semi would be most practical if one gets into such a situation. Other than that I'd think the gas pedal would be the best choice if the situation allows for it.
The second important point would be a quick access to a gun while driving.