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Charles L. Cotton wrote:

BBYC wrote:Have the revealed yet how many GSW and how many stampede injuries and deaths?

I have looked for this information, but cannot find it anywhere. I suspect that the "500 casualties" are not all from GSW and I suspect that less than half are from gunfire.

Chas.

197 injuries by lead projectiles. Sorry, do not remember which article. That number seemed low to me. Like you would actually have to make an effort to NOT hit people to have a hit rate that low. I am reminded of my early years goose hunting where I learned you seldom make hits shooting amongst a group of birds. If you aim for nothing, that is usually what you hit. I wonder if he was "pointing" to the center of the crowd even after the center had moved to the edges. One thing for sure, there will always be more questions than answers with this one.

Bump fire is not conducive to long range accuracy.

BBYC wrote:Bump fire is not conducive to long range accuracy.

Exactly, also would bump fire work if your using a bipod? When my son was bump firing my .45 carbine, he was holding in loosely in order to get it to bump fire, seems using bipod would interfere with that!

So I read that the security guard was shot BEFORE the shooting and then I read he was shot AFTER the shooting started.
I read the time from the first shot to SWAT taking the room was 12 and I have read 90 minutes.
Perp was there for 3 days and now 5 days.

WHY DOES THE TIMELINE KEEP CHANGING? If this was an interrogation, the suspect (government) would be really screwed on their credibility!!!!!

Now I heard that Jesus Campos, the injured Mandalay security guard, bolted from scheduled media interviews. My gut tells me the lawyers got ahold of him and had him clam up expecting pending litigation of various sorts. Stay tuned.

TreyHouston wrote:So I read that the security guard was shot BEFORE the shooting and then I read he was shot AFTER the shooting started.
I read the time from the first shot to SWAT taking the room was 12 and I have read 90 minutes.
Perp was there for 3 days and now 5 days.

WHY DOES THE TIMELINE KEEP CHANGING? If this was an interrogation, the suspect (government) would be really screwed on their credibility!!!!!

This incident is having so many changes to what transpired that it’s taking on the attributes of Felonia Von Pantsuit’s “What Happened” fairy tale.

It's actually taking on elements of JFK.

Redneck_Buddha wrote:It's actually taking on elements of JFK.

BBYC wrote:Bump fire is not conducive to long range accuracy.

It wouldn't have to be if you are shooting at a mass targart, like a bunch of people herded together for a concert.

TreyHouston wrote:So I read that the security guard was shot BEFORE the shooting and then I read he was shot AFTER the shooting started.
I read the time from the first shot to SWAT taking the room was 12 and I have read 90 minutes.
Perp was there for 3 days and now 5 days.

WHY DOES THE TIMELINE KEEP CHANGING? If this was an interrogation, the suspect (government) would be really screwed on their credibility!!!!!

Because different reporters have talked to different people who may or may not have been actual witnesses to what happened. Take a car accident with two drivers and three witness. Ask them all for statements. You will get six different stories, if you're lucky they will have some points in common. Really, if all the early reports came out with the same, non-conflicting info, that would be much more indicative of something funny going on.

People's recollection of hard numerical data, like passage of time and numbers of anything are really not very good, especially under stress. It will take watching lots of video tape, recorded radio and 911 calls, and the like to pin down a reliable time line.

ELB wrote:

BBYC wrote:Bump fire is not conducive to long range accuracy.

It wouldn't have to be if you are shooting at a mass targart, like a bunch of people herded together for a concert.

TreyHouston wrote:So I read that the security guard was shot BEFORE the shooting and then I read he was shot AFTER the shooting started.
I read the time from the first shot to SWAT taking the room was 12 and I have read 90 minutes.
Perp was there for 3 days and now 5 days.

WHY DOES THE TIMELINE KEEP CHANGING? If this was an interrogation, the suspect (government) would be really screwed on their credibility!!!!!

Because different reporters have talked to different people who may or may not have been actual witnesses to what happened. Take a car accident with two drivers and three witness. Ask them all for statements. You will get six different stories, if you're lucky they will have some points in common. Really, if all the early reports came out with the same, non-conflicting info, that would be much more indicative of something funny going on.

People's recollection of hard numerical data, like passage of time and numbers of anything are really not very good, especially under stress. It will take watching lots of video tape, recorded radio and 911 calls, and the like to pin down a reliable time line.

10000% correct. To be honest, for an event like this, it transpired as expected. LEOs don't exactly training for this sort of stuff every day. Security guards don't exactly expect a heavily armed perp. When a problem arises for the masses, I expected a lot of injuries and chaos to ensue. At this point, the LEOs are still piecing things together. It'll be a tough job, since there were minimal eye witnesses, next to no video, etc. At least they have a perp, albeit deceased. A good investigation takes time. It doesn't help us that everyone and their mothers want their 15 minutes of fame with the media talking about things they barely remember or barely know anything about. Thus even the conflicting information on things that have actually been measured.

Here's something y'all may find interesting. A psychological study was done decades ago where a bunch of real scientists (not the hacks we have today on Yahoo news) tested memory recall of people. Memory recall of big events were not any more accurate than memory recall of smaller, less significant events. If anything, it may be worse. It may seem more accurate and vivid to the subject, but it's only because those larger events get more frequent airtime in their brains, so whatever memories (false or true) are easier to access.

With that in mind, I take any media stories over the Vegas deal with a grain of salt until an official police report comes out. That may take a lot of time. There's no point in speculating until then.

You bag the hands of the man found in the room.

You photograph the room extensively.

You finger print all the weapons found in the room.

You finger print the room.

You bag and collect all the evidence in the room.

You collect all digital video recordings from the hotel.

You collect all digital or analogue audio recordings.

You collect any digital data on the man in the room that the hotel has.

You begin interviewing witnesses at the hotel who interacted with the man in the room.

And so on.

But at some point, you tell the public:

Three guns were fired in the room. They are the following... None of the guns were automatic or the fired guns all had bump devices. There were no other fingerprints on the weapons or ammunition other than the man in the room or the guns fired had been wiped clean. Gunpowder residue was found on the hands of the man in the room or not.
The bullets taken from all victims match the guns found in the room or not.

Will we ever know these things?

Why is this like the Eric Scott murder. Why would you need to protect someone?

Eric Scotts dad has even noticed things are weird now.

Follow the money.

strogg wrote:

ELB wrote:

BBYC wrote:Bump fire is not conducive to long range accuracy.

It wouldn't have to be if you are shooting at a mass targart, like a bunch of people herded together for a concert.

TreyHouston wrote:So I read that the security guard was shot BEFORE the shooting and then I read he was shot AFTER the shooting started.
I read the time from the first shot to SWAT taking the room was 12 and I have read 90 minutes.
Perp was there for 3 days and now 5 days.

WHY DOES THE TIMELINE KEEP CHANGING? If this was an interrogation, the suspect (government) would be really screwed on their credibility!!!!!

Because different reporters have talked to different people who may or may not have been actual witnesses to what happened. Take a car accident with two drivers and three witness. Ask them all for statements. You will get six different stories, if you're lucky they will have some points in common. Really, if all the early reports came out with the same, non-conflicting info, that would be much more indicative of something funny going on.

People's recollection of hard numerical data, like passage of time and numbers of anything are really not very good, especially under stress. It will take watching lots of video tape, recorded radio and 911 calls, and the like to pin down a reliable time line.

10000% correct. To be honest, for an event like this, it transpired as expected. LEOs don't exactly training for this sort of stuff every day. Security guards don't exactly expect a heavily armed perp. When a problem arises for the masses, I expected a lot of injuries and chaos to ensue. At this point, the LEOs are still piecing things together. It'll be a tough job, since there were minimal eye witnesses, next to no video, etc. At least they have a perp, albeit deceased. A good investigation takes time. It doesn't help us that everyone and their mothers want their 15 minutes of fame with the media talking about things they barely remember or barely know anything about. Thus even the conflicting information on things that have actually been measured.

Here's something y'all may find interesting. A psychological study was done decades ago where a bunch of real scientists (not the hacks we have today on Yahoo news) tested memory recall of people. Memory recall of big events were not any more accurate than memory recall of smaller, less significant events. If anything, it may be worse. It may seem more accurate and vivid to the subject, but it's only because those larger events get more frequent airtime in their brains, so whatever memories (false or true) are easier to access.

With that in mind, I take any media stories over the Vegas deal with a grain of salt until an official police report comes out. That may take a lot of time. There's no point in speculating until then.

Where is the hotel surveillance video !!!!!!!!!

TreyHouston wrote:

strogg wrote:

ELB wrote:

BBYC wrote:Bump fire is not conducive to long range accuracy.

It wouldn't have to be if you are shooting at a mass targart, like a bunch of people herded together for a concert.

TreyHouston wrote:So I read that the security guard was shot BEFORE the shooting and then I read he was shot AFTER the shooting started.
I read the time from the first shot to SWAT taking the room was 12 and I have read 90 minutes.
Perp was there for 3 days and now 5 days.

WHY DOES THE TIMELINE KEEP CHANGING? If this was an interrogation, the suspect (government) would be really screwed on their credibility!!!!!

Because different reporters have talked to different people who may or may not have been actual witnesses to what happened. Take a car accident with two drivers and three witness. Ask them all for statements. You will get six different stories, if you're lucky they will have some points in common. Really, if all the early reports came out with the same, non-conflicting info, that would be much more indicative of something funny going on.

People's recollection of hard numerical data, like passage of time and numbers of anything are really not very good, especially under stress. It will take watching lots of video tape, recorded radio and 911 calls, and the like to pin down a reliable time line.

10000% correct. To be honest, for an event like this, it transpired as expected. LEOs don't exactly training for this sort of stuff every day. Security guards don't exactly expect a heavily armed perp. When a problem arises for the masses, I expected a lot of injuries and chaos to ensue. At this point, the LEOs are still piecing things together. It'll be a tough job, since there were minimal eye witnesses, next to no video, etc. At least they have a perp, albeit deceased. A good investigation takes time. It doesn't help us that everyone and their mothers want their 15 minutes of fame with the media talking about things they barely remember or barely know anything about. Thus even the conflicting information on things that have actually been measured.

Here's something y'all may find interesting. A psychological study was done decades ago where a bunch of real scientists (not the hacks we have today on Yahoo news) tested memory recall of people. Memory recall of big events were not any more accurate than memory recall of smaller, less significant events. If anything, it may be worse. It may seem more accurate and vivid to the subject, but it's only because those larger events get more frequent airtime in their brains, so whatever memories (false or true) are easier to access.

With that in mind, I take any media stories over the Vegas deal with a grain of salt until an official police report comes out. That may take a lot of time. There's no point in speculating until then.

Where is the hotel surveillance video !!!!!!!!!

It's being sent to Al's video service just like Erik Scott's security camera footage from Costco!

Ha!