5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

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WildBill
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#376

Post by WildBill » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:06 am

March 29, 2019 A Harris County judge this week dismissed another pair of drugs charges handled by the former Houston Police officer
at the center of the botched Pecan Park drug raid that left a couple dead and five officers injured.

Monique Sparks, the defense attorney who handled the two cases against Willis, wouldn't discuss the arrest in detail without
speaking to her client first. But she said Friday that she's had other dealings with the embattled officer, and that she's viewed
him as a problem for years. "He has been terrorizing low-income areas for years," she said, "since I started practicing in 2006."
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 727609.php
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Papa_Tiger
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#377

Post by Papa_Tiger » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Jason Todd wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:12 pm
They're setting aside convictions based on his false testimony. When will they prosecute him for perjury?
There probably isn't enough evidence to prove that he lied, but there is enough to cast doubt on the complete veracity of the evidence he provided which resulted in the conviction.

Two different standards. Sometimes justice is delayed until the perpetrator of the crime meets his maker.

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WildBill
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#378

Post by WildBill » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:33 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:23 pm
Jason Todd wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:12 pm
They're setting aside convictions based on his false testimony. When will they prosecute him for perjury?
There probably isn't enough evidence to prove that he lied, but there is enough to cast doubt on the complete veracity of the evidence he provided which resulted in the conviction.

Two different standards. Sometimes justice is delayed until the perpetrator of the crime meets his maker.
In view of the entire scope of the investigations, filing perjury charges are low priority right now.
Those charges can be added later to the more serious offenses.
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K.Mooneyham
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#379

Post by K.Mooneyham » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:49 am

So, two people were killed by police officers during a drug raid that now appears to be completely false on the circumstances of it, yet no involvement by the Rangers in the investigation.

Out here in flyover country, I guess things work differently: http://www.kswo.com/2019/03/12/deceased ... ng-quanah/

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Grumpy1993
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#380

Post by Grumpy1993 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:44 pm

It looks more and more like everybody who was shot in the botched raid was shot by cops.
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#381

Post by O.F.Fascist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:51 pm

Houston Chronicle released some video that a neighbor provided them.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/h ... 733254.php

Previously News Now Houston claimed a neighbor saw SWAT shooting Mr. Tuttle through a window to ensure he was dead. At about the 1:50 mark in this video you clearly hear two shots, this seems to confirm that claim.



srothstein
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#382

Post by srothstein » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:51 pm

WildBill wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:17 pm
Jusme wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:30 pm
I believe that a bill should be introduced, in the legislature, that mandates, that no law enforcement agency, in Texas, can do it's own internal affairs investigation, in any officer involved shooting, or death of a person in custody ...
Jusme, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that this would work. I have no idea how many cases there are every year in Texas, but I would think it would be too cumbersome and inefficient. :tiphat:
I actually like this idea but it won't work for one major reason. When an agency investigates its own officers, it can legally force officers to make a statement. This is because an internal investigation can be for internal discipline and the findings not used for a criminal case. The forced statement is not admissible in court for criminal purposes. There was a Supreme Court case on this, known as Garrity v. New Jersey. When an outside agency does the investigation, it cannot compel the officers to make a statement.

If this can be handled in the law requiring the outside investigation, I could support this, as could many officers (obviously some will never support it). And it might be done by modifying the current law. The law requires every in custody death to be reported to the AG. This includes deaths that occur while attempting to take the person into custody, such as chases.

I would even support just expanding that law to require every officer involved shooting where a human being is targeted to be reported to the AG. That would at least be a step in the right direction.
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Flightmare
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#383

Post by Flightmare » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:23 am

srothstein wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:51 pm
WildBill wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:17 pm
Jusme wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:30 pm
I believe that a bill should be introduced, in the legislature, that mandates, that no law enforcement agency, in Texas, can do it's own internal affairs investigation, in any officer involved shooting, or death of a person in custody ...
Jusme, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that this would work. I have no idea how many cases there are every year in Texas, but I would think it would be too cumbersome and inefficient. :tiphat:
I actually like this idea but it won't work for one major reason. When an agency investigates its own officers, it can legally force officers to make a statement. This is because an internal investigation can be for internal discipline and the findings not used for a criminal case. The forced statement is not admissible in court for criminal purposes. There was a Supreme Court case on this, known as Garrity v. New Jersey. When an outside agency does the investigation, it cannot compel the officers to make a statement.

If this can be handled in the law requiring the outside investigation, I could support this, as could many officers (obviously some will never support it). And it might be done by modifying the current law. The law requires every in custody death to be reported to the AG. This includes deaths that occur while attempting to take the person into custody, such as chases.

I would even support just expanding that law to require every officer involved shooting where a human being is targeted to be reported to the AG. That would at least be a step in the right direction.
If the internal investigation and officer statement is not admissible in court for criminal purposes, and would be used for violations of policy; what would be the issue in having the external agency investigate potential violation of the law?
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srothstein
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#384

Post by srothstein » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Flightmare wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:23 am
If the internal investigation and officer statement is not admissible in court for criminal purposes, and would be used for violations of policy; what would be the issue in having the external agency investigate potential violation of the law?
I support that part of the law. I was just pointing out the problems with getting the officers to cooperate. Look at the Dallas investigation into that shooting as an example of the problem, even with the IA power to compel statements. Somehow, even though I am confident that the officer was way wrong, I doubt that we will ever know exactly what really happened and why because of the refusal by officers to cooperate.
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warnmar10
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#385

Post by warnmar10 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:50 pm

What if... Every enforcer was required to obtain his or her own liability insurance? As part of an enforcers 'wages, tips and other compensation' the employing agency could pay the premiums for basic liability coverage. But an enforcer who has multiple claims would naturally have higher premiums and the difference would be the responsibility of the high risk enforcers individually. Like any other liability insurance arrangement, if the losses are two high no underwriter would take the risk and that enforcer would then be free to pursue other opportunities or spend more time with their family.

This combined with a State Constitutional amendment prohibiting agencies investigating their own should go a long way toward solving some of the issues brought to light in this fiasco.

Honestly, I have no issue with Internal Affairs departments investigating time clock abuses or dress code violations. But enforcer involved shootings need outside review with subpoena powers and TCOLE revocation powers.
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Jusme
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#386

Post by Jusme » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:27 pm

srothstein wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:51 pm
WildBill wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:17 pm
Jusme wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:30 pm
I believe that a bill should be introduced, in the legislature, that mandates, that no law enforcement agency, in Texas, can do it's own internal affairs investigation, in any officer involved shooting, or death of a person in custody ...
Jusme, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that this would work. I have no idea how many cases there are every year in Texas, but I would think it would be too cumbersome and inefficient. :tiphat:
I actually like this idea but it won't work for one major reason. When an agency investigates its own officers, it can legally force officers to make a statement. This is because an internal investigation can be for internal discipline and the findings not used for a criminal case. The forced statement is not admissible in court for criminal purposes. There was a Supreme Court case on this, known as Garrity v. New Jersey. When an outside agency does the investigation, it cannot compel the officers to make a statement.

If this can be handled in the law requiring the outside investigation, I could support this, as could many officers (obviously some will never support it). And it might be done by modifying the current law. The law requires every in custody death to be reported to the AG. This includes deaths that occur while attempting to take the person into custody, such as chases.

I would even support just expanding that law to require every officer involved shooting where a human being is targeted to be reported to the AG. That would at least be a step in the right direction.

No one, including LEO can legally be forced to give an incriminating statement. The only thing that can happen, is that they can be fired, for refusing to participate in an internal affairs investigation. LEO do not give up their fifth amendment rights when they put on a badge.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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WildBill
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#387

Post by WildBill » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:12 am

A news story from KHOU 11 that investigates past problems with search warrants.
In 50 search warrants that said guns were observed in the house, none were ever entered into evidence.

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warnmar10
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#388

Post by warnmar10 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:56 am

WildBill wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:12 am
A news story from KHOU 11 that investigates past problems with search warrants.
In 50 search warrants that said guns were observed in the house, none were ever entered into evidence.

Nothing to see here, SOP. Similar to the number of traffic stops in which an enforcer "smells marijuana" but none is discovered in the resulting search. It's just a means to an end.
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K.Mooneyham
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#389

Post by K.Mooneyham » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:04 am

WildBill wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:12 am
A news story from KHOU 11 that investigates past problems with search warrants.
In 50 search warrants that said guns were observed in the house, none were ever entered into evidence.

WOW! The more I hear about that Officer Goines, the more I think about a movie called "Training Day" from 2001 where Denzel Washington plays the role of a very dirty police detective.


philip964
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Re: 5 Officers Shot In Houston - Pray

#390

Post by philip964 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:09 am

https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/t ... 1wGGuEsc4Y

Not much news. Waiting for no one to care.

Here police chief wants gun control and doesn't want prayer, wants action.

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