No place but Mexico

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jb2012
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Re: No place but Mexico

#16

Post by jb2012 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:42 pm

C-dub wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:48 am


No measly semi automatic rifles for the cartels.

Video on TV showed dump trucks with mounted 50 cal machine guns being used in the cartel counter offensive.
I’ll see if I can find the video that I saw yesterday.... of cartel members in a smaller sedan with several rifles and an AT4 anti tank weapon. ANTI TANK ROCKET LAUNCHER...

We can thank “fast and furious” for a significant portion of these weapons being in their hands.


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Re: No place but Mexico

#17

Post by srothstein » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:53 pm

jb2012 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:42 pm
We can thank “fast and furious” for a significant portion of these weapons being in their hands.
While I hate that program and see it was a mistake, I must point out that it is not the source of a significant number of weapons to the cartels. I urge people to stop repeating this claim. Think about this: If fast and furious was a significant source of firearms, then it means the claims made to justify the program are true and illegal sales in the US are a significant source also. This argues that there really is a problem with our gun sales in the US and it justifies other restrictions to help stop guns from going to criminals.

There are illegal arms dealers around the world that sell guns by the truck or train car load. Considering how may of the firearms seen in use by the cartels are fully automatic and never were registered in our NFA registry, I have a hard time believing that any sales in the US are a significant contribution to the arming of the criminals in Mexico. And I don't care how many times the media claims that the flow of guns south is a big part of the problem, until I see better evidence of it, I will not agree it is true.
Steve Rothstein


jb2012
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Re: No place but Mexico

#18

Post by jb2012 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:06 pm

srothstein wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:53 pm
jb2012 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:42 pm
We can thank “fast and furious” for a significant portion of these weapons being in their hands.
While I hate that program and see it was a mistake, I must point out that it is not the source of a significant number of weapons to the cartels. I urge people to stop repeating this claim. Think about this: If fast and furious was a significant source of firearms, then it means the claims made to justify the program are true and illegal sales in the US are a significant source also. This argues that there really is a problem with our gun sales in the US and it justifies other restrictions to help stop guns from going to criminals.

There are illegal arms dealers around the world that sell guns by the truck or train car load. Considering how may of the firearms seen in use by the cartels are fully automatic and never were registered in our NFA registry, I have a hard time believing that any sales in the US are a significant contribution to the arming of the criminals in Mexico. And I don't care how many times the media claims that the flow of guns south is a big part of the problem, until I see better evidence of it, I will not agree it is true.
1. I do think that all of the illegal sales end up in Mexico. It would be naive to say that there aren’t illegal sales all the time, and it would also be naive to say that they don’t end up in the hands of cartels among other organized crime.

2. A fully automatic does not have to be registered in the NFA by default. It has to be registered via nfa by law. If I drill an extra hole in all of my lowers to allow an auto sear, they aren’t automatically registered by the nfa. Obviously mounted .50 cal browning machine guns and AT4 rocket launchers didn’t come (at least directly) from the U.S.

If you can’t buy any of these guns in Mexico, and we are the closest country where many of these weapons ARE for sale to the general public, it’s only reasonable to believe that a number of them had to come from here; especially american made weapons. Once again, I don’t believe it is a huge problem, but I think that you have to agree that it is a problem. Is it a problem cured by any sort of gun control laws? Absolutely not.

Eta: In the end it’s all a matter of speculation, and there is really no way to know the truth.


srothstein
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Re: No place but Mexico

#19

Post by srothstein » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:56 pm

jb2012 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:06 pm
If you can’t buy any of these guns in Mexico, and we are the closest country where many of these weapons ARE for sale to the general public, it’s only reasonable to believe that a number of them had to come from here; especially american made weapons. Once again, I don’t believe it is a huge problem, but I think that you have to agree that it is a problem. Is it a problem cured by any sort of gun control laws? Absolutely not.

Eta: In the end it’s all a matter of speculation, and there is really no way to know the truth.
I agree that it is all speculation and that there is a problem with some guns from here ending up there. My disagreement was on the size of the contribution to the problem made by illegal sales like fast and furious was trying to stop. I believe that most of the sale of that type are used by criminals and gangsters right here in the US. My logic says this is simply not profitable for the cartels as a way of getting arms, compared to the international arms dealers who sell large quantities at one time.

Even more, I wanted to caution people about buying into unsupported or unprovable arguments that can be used against us. If it truly is all speculation, we have to stop repeating it as if it was a fact.
Steve Rothstein

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Re: No place but Mexico

#20

Post by Liberty » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:23 pm

Its my belief that many of the weapons used by the cartels are derived from their own military and police sources.
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narcissist
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Re: No place but Mexico

#21

Post by narcissist » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:29 pm

crazy2medic wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:05 pm
philip964 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:46 am
https://news.yahoo.com/nineteen-bodies- ... 16233.html

19 murdered in Mexico. Some hung from bridge, some dismembered, included 4 women.
This is what happens when you disarm the general populace!
:iagree: and it will just keep getting worse!
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narcissist
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Re: No place but Mexico

#22

Post by narcissist » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:33 pm

Liberty wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:23 pm
Its my belief that many of the weapons used by the cartels are derived from their own military and police sources.
No doubt about it but also you probably remember this story https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
One of my biggest mistakes in life...Is Believing people will show me the same love I've shown them. :reddevil

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RoyGBiv
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Re: No place but Mexico

#23

Post by RoyGBiv » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:13 am

If it wasn't already clear that Mexico is a failed state and that its government is not in control, this incident is the last proof anyone should need.

On Mexican State Collapse: a Guest Post by El Anti-Pozolero
Then the coup de grace: as the Chapo sons’ forces engaged in direct combat with their own national military, kill squads went into action across Culiacán, slaughtering the families of soldiers engaged in the streets.

Cowed and overmatched—most crucially in the moral arena—the hapless band of soldiers still holding the second son finally received word from Mexico City, direct from President AMLO himself: surrender. Surrender and release the prisoner.

It’s an absolutely extraordinary episode even by the grim and bizarre annals of what we mistakenly call the post-2006 Mexican Drug War. The Battle of Culiacán stands on a level above, say, the Ayotzinapa massacre, or the Zetas’ expulsion of the entire population of Ciudad Mier. Killing scores of innocents and brutalizing small towns is one thing: seizing regional capital cities and crushing the national armed forces in open fighting in broad daylight is something else.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: No place but Mexico

#24

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 am

TxRVer wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:29 am
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:10 am
TxRVer wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:02 am
Maybe Mexico should build a wall at the border with the U.S. to keep the guns from crossing the border.
But then they would still have the full auto weapons coming in from Guatemala, Belize, Honduras and Cuba. That would be a lot of walls.
Only two, and the southern border is shorter. :evil2:
https://geo-mexico.com/?p=277
According to the CIA World Factbook, Mexico has 9,330 kilometers of coastline.

According to Mexico’s National Statistics Institute (INEGI), it has 11,122 kilometers of coastline, and that figure apparently excludes the coastlines of Mexico’s various islands.
Good luck with that wall thing.... :mrgreen:
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philip964
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Re: No place but Mexico

#25

Post by philip964 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:53 pm

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/21/a- ... in-battle/

Another article on the drug cartel defeating the Mexican military in battle. The MSM does not want to talk about this as this might destroy their narrative about wanting an open border to our South.

I am told that the videos that are available on places on the internet showing the horrible violence are unimaginable. One that was described showed a police officer being eaten alive by dogs as his son was held to watch.

Not far away from us.

At what point does the US military step in. It has happened before.

We run around the world policing places far away, but fail to worry about our neighbors.

If I was China, I would be all over helping the Mexican government or the drug cartels. "hey can we have a naval base?"


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Re: No place but Mexico

#26

Post by Grayling813 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:13 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:13 am
If it wasn't already clear that Mexico is a failed state and that its government is not in control, this incident is the last proof anyone should need.

On Mexican State Collapse: a Guest Post by El Anti-Pozolero
Then the coup de grace: as the Chapo sons’ forces engaged in direct combat with their own national military, kill squads went into action across Culiacán, slaughtering the families of soldiers engaged in the streets.

Cowed and overmatched—most crucially in the moral arena—the hapless band of soldiers still holding the second son finally received word from Mexico City, direct from President AMLO himself: surrender. Surrender and release the prisoner.

It’s an absolutely extraordinary episode even by the grim and bizarre annals of what we mistakenly call the post-2006 Mexican Drug War. The Battle of Culiacán stands on a level above, say, the Ayotzinapa massacre, or the Zetas’ expulsion of the entire population of Ciudad Mier. Killing scores of innocents and brutalizing small towns is one thing: seizing regional capital cities and crushing the national armed forces in open fighting in broad daylight is something else.
Excellent article. Takeaway from it...
From Culiacán, Sinaloa, to Nogales, Arizona, is one day’s drive.
“Is there nothing to sing about to-day? Then borrow a song from tomorrow; sing of what is yet to be. Is this world dreary? Then think of the next.” - Charles Spurgeon


Grayling813
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Re: No place but Mexico

#27

Post by Grayling813 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:15 pm

philip964 wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:21 pm

No measly semi automatic rifles for the cartels.

Video on TV showed dump trucks with mounted 50 cal machine guns being used in the cartel counter offensive.
Front fender markings "US ARMY"
“Is there nothing to sing about to-day? Then borrow a song from tomorrow; sing of what is yet to be. Is this world dreary? Then think of the next.” - Charles Spurgeon

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03Lightningrocks
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Re: No place but Mexico

#28

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 pm

Many of their weapons come in from Guatemala. They are also acquiring the full auto weapons from the same sources they get their Fentanyl and Crystal Meth. China. The drug cartels have more money than God. They can buy anything they want from the same underworld arms suppliers that supply many gorilla groups. Those fellows are using full auto weapons along with frag grenades. There is no real need for supplies from America. The stories of american firearms are greatly exaggerated for political reasons. Same crappola as when Chicago blames guns from Indiana for their gun crimes. Funny how those same guns are not shooting 10-30 people a weekend in Indiana.


Ruark
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Re: No place but Mexico

#29

Post by Ruark » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:11 pm

The drug cartels have more money than God. They can buy anything they want from the same underworld arms suppliers that supply many gorilla groups. Those fellows are using full auto weapons along with frag grenades. There is no real need for supplies from America.
True. The big cartel bosses are all-powerful. They have warehouses full of money - hundreds of millions - fleets of 747s, yachts, submarines, Lear jets, heavy weapons, anything they want, any time they want it. Human life means utterly nothing to them. Like their recent bus robberies, for example. They'll stop a bus, take the driver's ticket money, then kill him, then kill the 38 passengers on board just for good measure.

Now we have the newest cartel, CJNG (Cartel Jalisco New Generation), currently the most powerful cartel in Mexico, literally murdering their way to the top in less than 5 years, so aggressive and vicious, even giants like Sinaloa and Los Zetas are retreating before them. CJNG soldiers aren't a bunch of scruffy Mexican boys, either; they're full-camo, full-kit, highly trained operators who think nothing of slaughtering an entire village. They're basically unstoppable at this point. No telling where it's all going to end.
-Ruark


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philip964
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Re: No place but Mexico

#30

Post by philip964 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:10 pm

https://www.breitbart.com/border/2019/1 ... el-attack/

New police chief resigns after surviving 100 or more shot attack on his armored vehicle.

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