Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

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jmra
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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#31

Post by jmra » Wed May 08, 2013 6:36 pm

Monkey404error wrote:
chamberc wrote:
TREKFAN wrote:Wow UTSA is gonna have to post like 30 - 30.06 signs and god help them if they are not 100 percent valid. Ill carry right past them in a heart beat .
They only have to post 1. There has never been a test case saying it has to be posted everywhere.
To properly post 30.06 signs, it must be on every entrance available as far as I know (there are a million posts elsewhere, describing exactly this conundrum), although being a school, it might be different set of rules.
Per the code:
"...is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public."
Does not have to be posted at every entrance. Once you see the sign you have been notified.
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CJD
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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#32

Post by CJD » Wed May 08, 2013 7:36 pm

jmra wrote:
Monkey404error wrote:
chamberc wrote:
TREKFAN wrote:Wow UTSA is gonna have to post like 30 - 30.06 signs and god help them if they are not 100 percent valid. Ill carry right past them in a heart beat .
They only have to post 1. There has never been a test case saying it has to be posted everywhere.
To properly post 30.06 signs, it must be on every entrance available as far as I know (there are a million posts elsewhere, describing exactly this conundrum), although being a school, it might be different set of rules.
Per the code:
"...is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public."
Does not have to be posted at every entrance. Once you see the sign you have been notified.
Is UTSA a public school? If so, they won't be able to post 30.06. It will be legal to carry at all public schools if 972 passes, only possibly "against school rules."


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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#33

Post by TrueFlog » Wed May 08, 2013 9:59 pm

jmra wrote:
Monkey404error wrote:
chamberc wrote:
TREKFAN wrote:Wow UTSA is gonna have to post like 30 - 30.06 signs and god help them if they are not 100 percent valid. Ill carry right past them in a heart beat .
They only have to post 1. There has never been a test case saying it has to be posted everywhere.
To properly post 30.06 signs, it must be on every entrance available as far as I know (there are a million posts elsewhere, describing exactly this conundrum), although being a school, it might be different set of rules.
Per the code:
"...is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public."
Does not have to be posted at every entrance. Once you see the sign you have been notified.
You also have to ask the question of what constitues a premise. Is the entire campus one premise? Or is each building its own premise? If it's the latter, then each building would need its own sign. Furthermore, if one building is posted but another is not, it would be very difficult for the average individual to determine the intent of the university. Do they intend for that sign to apply only to the building at which it's posted or to all building in the vicinity? It's not immediately clear.

The term "conspicuous" is also worthy of scrutiny. If one sign is posted at a building on the south side of campus, is it "conspicuous" and "clearly visible" to someone entering a building on the north side? Is it reasonable to expect him to know carry is prohibited when the nearest sign is over a mile away? Should he have to walk the entire campus unarmed and inspect every building before rearming going into the one building he cares about?

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jmra
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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#34

Post by jmra » Wed May 08, 2013 10:13 pm

TrueFlog wrote:
jmra wrote:
Monkey404error wrote:
chamberc wrote:
TREKFAN wrote:Wow UTSA is gonna have to post like 30 - 30.06 signs and god help them if they are not 100 percent valid. Ill carry right past them in a heart beat .
They only have to post 1. There has never been a test case saying it has to be posted everywhere.
To properly post 30.06 signs, it must be on every entrance available as far as I know (there are a million posts elsewhere, describing exactly this conundrum), although being a school, it might be different set of rules.
Per the code:
"...is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public."
Does not have to be posted at every entrance. Once you see the sign you have been notified.
You also have to ask the question of what constitues a premise. Is the entire campus one premise? Or is each building its own premise? If it's the latter, then each building would need its own sign. Furthermore, if one building is posted but another is not, it would be very difficult for the average individual to determine the intent of the university. Do they intend for that sign to apply only to the building at which it's posted or to all building in the vicinity? It's not immediately clear.

The term "conspicuous" is also worthy of scrutiny. If one sign is posted at a building on the south side of campus, is it "conspicuous" and "clearly visible" to someone entering a building on the north side? Is it reasonable to expect him to know carry is prohibited when the nearest sign is over a mile away? Should he have to walk the entire campus unarmed and inspect every building before rearming going into the one building he cares about?
(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
Intent means absolutely nothing.
Now if we are talking about a public University (I assume UTSA is a public University) they can not post 30.06 period. So in the context of a campus and 30.06 we would be discussing private schools only. They would have to post every building in which they wanted to exclude carry but not necessarily every entrance to that building.
As for conspicuous, that's easy - if you see the sign you have been notified. Some would say that if you were aware that a compliant sign was in the building that you have been notified.
Now what could be confusing is something like a compliant sign in a hallway close to the door of a room. Is the building posted or just the room?
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
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JKTex
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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#35

Post by JKTex » Thu May 09, 2013 9:53 am

Monkey404error wrote:
chamberc wrote:
TREKFAN wrote:Wow UTSA is gonna have to post like 30 - 30.06 signs and god help them if they are not 100 percent valid. Ill carry right past them in a heart beat .
They only have to post 1. There has never been a test case saying it has to be posted everywhere.
To properly post 30.06 signs, it must be on every entrance available as far as I know (there are a million posts elsewhere, describing exactly this conundrum), although being a school, it might be different set of rules.
Those million posts aren't relevant. No sign has to be posted anywhere to satisfy effective notice under 30.06. ;-)

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jmra
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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#36

Post by jmra » Thu May 09, 2013 10:18 am

JKTex wrote:
Monkey404error wrote:
chamberc wrote:
TREKFAN wrote:Wow UTSA is gonna have to post like 30 - 30.06 signs and god help them if they are not 100 percent valid. Ill carry right past them in a heart beat .
They only have to post 1. There has never been a test case saying it has to be posted everywhere.
To properly post 30.06 signs, it must be on every entrance available as far as I know (there are a million posts elsewhere, describing exactly this conundrum), although being a school, it might be different set of rules.
Those million posts aren't relevant. No sign has to be posted anywhere to satisfy effective notice under 30.06. ;-)
Again, 30.06 would not apply at a public university.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member


CJD
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Re: Committee substitute for HB 972 passes committee

#37

Post by CJD » Thu May 09, 2013 10:20 am

Public university carry would be legal under 972, period.

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