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NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:50 pm
by ELB
http://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/loca ... -killing-1

4 am. 7-11 gas station. Robbers rob customer, then point gun in face of clerk. Customer un-conceals “lawfully concealed handgun” and blasts both robbers. One DRT, one captured later.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:55 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
A good guy with a gun.....

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:54 pm
by joe817
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:55 pm
A good guy with a gun.....
.....stops a bad guy with a gun, preventing fatalities.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am
by chasfm11
Several things about the article struck me.
Police say a gas station customer was acting in self-defense when he took matters into his own hands
perhaps I'm just overly sensitive to the phrase "took matters into his own hands" but that is not what happened. He responded to a potentially life threatening situation.
"I believe in self-defense. It's certainly not something we like to see, but everybody has to make their own decision whether they're life is in danger or not," Sgt. Scharf said.
It is not something that I like to see either but this just happens to be another phrase that I believe masks an officer's feeling that "civilians" shouldn't have guns Again, I may be overreacting.
"They immediately went straight to him, pointed a gun at him, within inches of his face, very aggressively pointed a gun at him," Sgt. Brian Scharf with CMPD said.
My understanding of the law is that this part alone should cause an immediate dismissal of any investigation against the concealed carrier. I do appreciate that you don't want people shooting other people if there was no longer a threat but there is no way to predict that the robbers wouldn't turn and fire, killing any witnesses on their way out after they acted in this manner. This was not a more benign "give me the money and I'll leave" situation. Once that level of aggression has been shown, it is going to be hard to predict what happens next.

I was surprised that the surviving robber was not charged with murder. In States like Alabama, if an accomplice dies even at the hands of the police, other participants in that crime can be charged with felony-murder. I tried to find a link which pointed out which States have that law but couldn't.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:13 am
by dlh
Well, at least the 7-11 clerk was probably not armed. That corporation fires employees if they know they take a gun to work to defend themselves.
The robbers may have known that too--but they did not count on a customer being armed.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:40 am
by Middle Age Russ
I don't wish ill on anyone, but a part of me rejoices when predictably consequences for epically bad decisions occur.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:21 am
by ELB
chasfm11 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am
...
Police say a gas station customer was acting in self-defense when he took matters into his own hands
perhaps I'm just overly sensitive to the phrase "took matters into his own hands" but that is not what happened. He responded to a potentially life threatening situation.
That phrase is a misdirection, I agree. I think the "journalist" added that.
chasfm11 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am
"I believe in self-defense. It's certainly not something we like to see, but everybody has to make their own decision whether they're life is in danger or not," Sgt. Scharf said.
It is not something that I like to see either but this just happens to be another phrase that I believe masks an officer's feeling that "civilians" shouldn't have guns Again, I may be overreacting.
I didn't get that the officer was opposed to armed civilians, just that he does not like to see situations where someone had to make the decision and kill to survive. Would have to ask him some questions to be sure.
chasfm11 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am
"They immediately went straight to him, pointed a gun at him, within inches of his face, very aggressively pointed a gun at him," Sgt. Brian Scharf with CMPD said.
My understanding of the law is that this part alone should cause an immediate dismissal of any investigation against the concealed carrier.
I don't believe the law says this. The police are obligated, and should, investigate the entire incident. It's not always clear what happened or what's important until you get all the facts documented. Then you apply the law.

chasfm11 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am
I was surprised that the surviving robber was not charged with murder.
Yet.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:31 am
by ELB
I see the story has been updated since I originally posted it. They have identified the wounded robber, and the police are reported to have definitively labeled the customer's actions as self-defense. As of yesterday morning they were still investigating.

Also I may have misread the original article. I wording led me to believe the robber robbed the customer, then pointed his gun in the clerk's face. It appears it may have really been that the robber stuck his gun in the customer's face, then turned his attention to the clerk, and the customer drew and fired.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:51 am
by LDP
chasfm11 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am
Police say a gas station customer was acting in self-defense when he took matters into his own hands
perhaps I'm just overly sensitive to the phrase "took matters into his own hands" but that is not what happened. He responded to a potentially life threatening situation.
"I believe in self-defense. It's certainly not something we like to see, but everybody has to make their own decision whether they're life is in danger or not," Sgt. Scharf said.
It is not something that I like to see either but this just happens to be another phrase that I believe masks an officer's feeling that "civilians" shouldn't have guns Again, I may be overreacting.
IMHO, you are not overreacting or too sensitive.
This does seem like anti-gun agenda again. And if these are quotes from the officers, it's unlikely the journalist making them up. (though I do not know a single journalist who isn't an extreme cuckoo leftist)

Glad that the good guy did it right, waited his turn and defended his life and others'.
I wonder how long until the surveillance video shows up on the Active Self Protection YT channel.

Re: NC: Armed customer shoots two robbers, kills one, wounds other

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:05 pm
by ELB
[IANAL_Holiday Inn Disclamer]
It may be that under North Carolina's judicial scheme the felony murder rule does not apply here because the death was not caused by one of the robbers/conspirators, but by an independent party who did not have any relationship to the robbers. Looking at a NC Supreme Court decision that references another NCSC decision, it appears NC's doctrine of felony murder uses agency theory rather than proximate cause. Agency theory says felony murder applies only when agents of the underlying felony crime (e.g. robbery) caused the death, not someone who was unrelated to the robbery itself (e.g. innocent armed victim). Proximate cause theory would hold that any death resulting from the robber's actions would be the responsibility of the robbers (with some further caveats).
[/IANAL_Holiday Inn Disclamer]

For example:

https://law.justia.com/cases/north-caro ... a91-0.html

This was in 1990. There may have been changes since then, I did not research it.