Failing a student?

A meeting place for CHL instructors

Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire


Topic author
mommagamber
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:54 pm
Location: Conroe, TX

Failing a student?

#1

Post by mommagamber » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:42 pm

Have any of y'all ever failed a student?
I conceal carry because I choose not to be a victim.


Zook
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:08 pm
Location: DFW/Lubbock

Re: Failing a student?

#2

Post by Zook » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:42 am

mommagamber wrote:Have any of y'all ever failed a student?
My instructor (not a good one) had to kick two people off his range for sweeping people with their muzzles 3 different times. Those are the only two students he failed, oh and they were both former LEO’s.
I’d rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 17192
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#3

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:06 am

I've never had anyone fail the written exam, but a few have had to shoot the course a 2nd time.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

Liberty
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5878
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Galveston
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#4

Post by Liberty » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:12 am

Are they allowed to retest if they do fail?
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy


Topic author
mommagamber
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:54 pm
Location: Conroe, TX

Re: Failing a student?

#5

Post by mommagamber » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:21 am

Right, I feel like a good teacher doesn't have failures but I had somebody question that. I have never failed anyone in 6 yrs.
I conceal carry because I choose not to be a victim.

User avatar

troglodyte
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:16 pm
Location: Hockley County
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#6

Post by troglodyte » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:48 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I've never had anyone fail the written exam, but a few have had to shoot the course a 2nd time.

Chas.
Same here.
Talon Firearms Training
License To Carry Instructor
School Safety Instructor
NRA Instructor - Basic pistol, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home.


o b juan
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:44 pm

Re: Failing a student?

#7

Post by o b juan » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:53 am

In the 23 years I have held the Tx CHL/LTC I have had to fail one older lady. Her arthiritis was the reason she couldnt pull trigger or cock hammer on revolver she had, and a SA was even worse. It was very troubling for me , she met me at gun store and bought a 410 . and took her to a range. she did fine loading unloading and firing. She said she was only concerned about home protection. :cheers2:
CHL Instructor since 95'/ School safety Since Jan 17' :patriot:

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 17192
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#8

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:17 am

Liberty wrote:Are they allowed to retest if they do fail?
They can shoot three times in a single class, but I'm not sure about the written exam. I believe I recall a DPS instructor/speaker saying they could do both the written exam and range portion of the class three times, but I could be wrong. I guess I should find out in case it happens. :oops:

Chas.
Image

User avatar

jmorris
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Cibolo
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#9

Post by jmorris » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Liberty wrote:Are they allowed to retest if they do fail?
They can shoot three times in a single class, but I'm not sure about the written exam. I believe I recall a DPS instructor/speaker saying they could do both the written exam and range portion of the class three times, but I could be wrong. I guess I should find out in case it happens. :oops:

Chas.
<removed>

Never mind. Gotta work on that reading comprehension.
Last edited by jmorris on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jay E Morris
Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC
NRA Lifetime
NRA Recruiter (link)
Cibolo, TX

User avatar

Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: Failing a student?

#10

Post by Scott B. » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:59 pm

In the last two years I've 'failed' 3 students on the shooting proficiency. Those failures were 60% wrong gun for the student and 40% lack of shooting experience. Put a better gun in their hands with some one-on-one instruction and they all passed in the 200s on the second try. Nothing like the smile on a student's face who went from shooting a 140 to shooting a 240.

Have never had a student fail the written.
LTC / SSO Instructor. NRA - Instructor, RSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 17192
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#11

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:13 pm

Scott B. wrote:In the last two years I've 'failed' 3 students on the shooting proficiency. Those failures were 60% wrong gun for the student and 40% lack of shooting experience. Put a better gun in their hands with some one-on-one instruction and they all passed in the 200s on the second try. Nothing like the smile on a student's face who went from shooting a 140 to shooting a 240.

Have never had a student fail the written.
:iagree: Wrong gun has always been the problem with the few students that have had to shoot twice and one a third time. I also agree about giving them a better/bigger gun makes a world of difference.

The most glaring example of this was with a very small elderly lady whose husband made the classic mistake of thinking "the little lady needs a little gun." She didn't weigh 100 pounds, so he bought her a Taurus Millennium compact. Every time she pulled the trigger, she winced and flinched badly -- as bad as I've ever seen. She shot a 129 and I thought I had finally seen my first student that wasn't going to pass.

I was carrying my 1911 lightweight Commander .45ACP, so I knew that wouldn't be any better. My buddy walked by with his full-size M&P in 9mm and I asked if she could shoot it with the next relay. I let her dry-fire it several times to get the feel of the trigger, then she shot the course. She shot a 219 with a gun she had never fired! That's an increase of 90 points because she used a gun that didn't hurt every time she pulled the trigger. Since that day I always have a 9mm in my bag or on my side for just such an occasion. I may bring a .22LR pistol now that the law changed.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

Jago668
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 764
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 12:31 am

Re: Failing a student?

#12

Post by Jago668 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:35 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Since that day I always have a 9mm in my bag or on my side for just such an occasion. I may bring a .22LR pistol now that the law changed.

Chas.

I have a S&W model 17, a Ruger 22/45 lite mk 4, and a Ruger 10/22 that I use for getting people into shooting. Not an LTC instructor but I do get the occasional chance to take new shooters to the range. They do a masterful job of getting people over the fear of shooting. If on a public range I just have to ask to not be put near someone shooting something crazy. Doesn't do any good to shoot a .22lr if someone next to you is letting loose with a snub nose .357 magnum or the like. Haven't been anywhere yet that wasn't as accommodating as they could be when I tell them why.
NRA Benefactor Member

User avatar

Lynyrd
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:20 am
Location: East Texas

Re: Failing a student?

#13

Post by Lynyrd » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:55 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Scott B. wrote:In the last two years I've 'failed' 3 students on the shooting proficiency. Those failures were 60% wrong gun for the student and 40% lack of shooting experience. Put a better gun in their hands with some one-on-one instruction and they all passed in the 200s on the second try. Nothing like the smile on a student's face who went from shooting a 140 to shooting a 240.

Have never had a student fail the written.
:iagree: Wrong gun has always been the problem with the few students that have had to shoot twice and one a third time. I also agree about giving them a better/bigger gun makes a world of difference.

The most glaring example of this was with a very small elderly lady whose husband made the classic mistake of thinking "the little lady needs a little gun." She didn't weigh 100 pounds, so he bought her a Taurus Millennium compact. Every time she pulled the trigger, she winced and flinched badly -- as bad as I've ever seen. She shot a 129 and I thought I had finally seen my first student that wasn't going to pass.

I was carrying my 1911 lightweight Commander .45ACP, so I knew that wouldn't be any better. My buddy walked by with his full-size M&P in 9mm and I asked if she could shoot it with the next relay. I let her dry-fire it several times to get the feel of the trigger, then she shot the course. She shot a 219 with a gun she had never fired! That's an increase of 90 points because she used a gun that didn't hurt every time she pulled the trigger. Since that day I always have a 9mm in my bag or on my side for just such an occasion. I may bring a .22LR pistol now that the law changed.

Chas.
I agree with everything you said, but I will offer this caveat from personal experience. My wife owns several pistols, all of which she has chosen herself. They range from an LCP to a S&W Lady Smith. The one she shoots the best with is a Ruger Single Six. But she carries that dang little airweight .38 snubbie that hurts her hands and bruises them every time she shoots. I didn't choose any of them for her. I just tried to explain the pros and cons of different actions, calibers, and weights. So sometimes the classic little lady with a little gun is her choice, not her husband's.

She would not, however, choose to qualify with the Lady Smith! :lol:
Do what you say you're gonna do.

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 17995
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: Failing a student?

#14

Post by Keith B » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:35 pm

I never have failed a student, but have had some come close.

We used to have students show up with brand new guns they had never shot (even when told not to) and the guns would malfunction, failure to feed, etc. Have had to make them shoot a second time with a rental.

Best re-shoot I had was the student who had a gun he was very familiar with. His wife shot in first round. When he got to the line during the first round of five shots his gun failed to fire. I told him I would watch and try to figure out why his gun was not firing. When he started shooting the next five shots, I saw him pull the trigger and something copper colored spit out the front of the barrel. I grabbed his hand and stopped him from shooting.

When the cease-fire was called I dropped the mag and asked 'Why do you have 9mm rounds in a .45?' He had reached into the range bag he shared with his wife and pulled out 9mm Winchester white box vs. the .45 WWB ammo. The rounds were chambering from the mag, and when the trigger was pulled the firing pin was hitting the case and throwing the whole round, case and all, out the barrel and onto the ground. :banghead: Luckily the diameter difference was enough the firing pin was hitting the case and not the primer. Had it been a .40 it might have had enough friction and been lined up right to hit the primer and detonate!!! :shock:

Anyway, I pulled him from the line and told him he could shoot again in the next line since he had already dropped 50 points. He was embarrassed and also a little shook thinking what could have happened.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4

User avatar

Crossfire
Moderator
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5365
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:27 am
Location: DFW
Contact:

Re: Failing a student?

#15

Post by Crossfire » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:36 pm

Keith - I will never forget that 9mm ammo in the 45ACP! I still don't know how he managed to get them loaded in the magazine.

As far as actually failing goes, we have had many students that had to shoot twice to pass. And a few who refused, so effectively they failed themselves.

On the written test, the only ones who have failed are those who didn't speak English well enough to pass even a verbal exam.
Texas LTC and Utah CFP Instructor, MorphoTrust Fingerprinting Partner
http://www.Crossfire-Training.com

Post Reply

Return to “Instructors' Corner”