Opinion on gunsmith situation

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SRO1911
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Opinion on gunsmith situation

#1

Post by SRO1911 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:06 pm

This may come back to bite me, given the extensive reach of this forum, but I could use an outside opinion.
I'm a fairly decent machinist and occasional hack gunsmith. I do not currently have a milling machine, so I decided to send my pistol slide to an 'expert' to mill and tap for direct mounting an RDS.
Springfield XD 45 Tactical... vortex viper

Local gunsmith,
Initial consultation said I would have it back in 4 to 5 days.
It is now 26 days.
I've been told " another day or two" at least 7 times.
I found out a couple days ago they were ordering a new extractor.
Apparently, in their enthusiasm to co-witness - they milled deep. Milling deep means drilling deeper for mounting screws.

I haven't worked in a machine shop in a number of years, been doing the municipal thing and EMS thing - and haven't really followed trends and advancements.

When did it become a good idea, or even marginally accepted practice, to drill and tap into AND through disparate components?
Drilling and tapping 2\3 frame 1\3 extractor.... removable, spring steel extractor - let's put a screw through it.

After crunching a few bits and a tap (hardened spring steel on one side, mild steel on the other...big surprise), and additional delays I finally spoke to the gunsmith (been dealing with the owner\ffl) who explained all the issues to date and suggested installing a mounting plate which relocates the tapped holes to non critical areas. I said sure, whatever it takes to get it done.

Finally to today. Gun is back in my possession. - I really wish I could figure out how to post pictures.
Rough milling
If you are familiar with the XD, the extractor has cylindrical end opposite the claw to anchor it.
They drilled through the top of the slide, and drilled\tapped the extractor anchor.
The striker retaining pin (through the top of the slide, some shortening expected) is a nub.
The striker safety spring is an exposed mangled mess. They milled into the spring pocket ....ok. I get it - but don't deliver it with the spring folded over under the sight.

Maybe I should not have accepted it back, or paid - but at this point I am so frustrated I just bit my tongue and opened my wallet.
Now, instead of cooling down and being rational I am getting more wound up.
I chose the local guy for 2 reasons, primarily his promised turn around time as well as keep some $ in a very small community.
When any govt, or church,says This you can't read, are forbidden to know, the result is tyranny and oppression. Little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked; no force can control a free man, not the rack, bombs, not anything, you can't conquer a free man, at most you can kill him.


SigM4
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#2

Post by SigM4 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm

Just from your description yeah I wouldn’t have accepted it nor paid. I would have told them to call me when they had a new unmolested slide as replacement for their incompetence.

Email me pictures if you’d like and I’ll post them for you. I’m sure others would like to see the mess you’re describing as well.

Posting pictures provided by SRO1911 (apologize as they're out of order as a received them, someone when uploading they got mixed).

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Last edited by SigM4 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#3

Post by Syntyr » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:35 pm

SigM4 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm
Just from your description yeah I wouldn’t have accepted it nor paid. I would have told them to call me when they had a new unmolested slide as replacement for their incompetence.

Email me pictures if you’d like and I’ll post them for you. I’m sure others would like to see the mess you’re describing as well.
:iagree:

Yep no go. If you can see the internals then obviously they have gone too deep. I also would never trust that gun as a carry piece again without a replacement slide. Even after that I would run it through more than a couple of mags to make sure nothing else was screwed with.

When milling you have to go slow. Once you take metal off you can put it back on.
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#4

Post by flechero » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:38 pm

I'd like to know who it is... especially since I have been researching smiths for machine work.

Edited after pics went up:

I'm disappointed for you. I can't imagine what a gut punch that must feel like. :cryin
Last edited by flechero on Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#5

Post by South Texas RGV » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:55 pm

Ohhh that sounds awful. I suppose the best case would be a refund and a new slide at their expense.

I would dearly like to see photos if that can be worked out.

In any event, I've had two XDM 9mm slides milled by Powder River Precision, which is the main information I wanted to convey. Each time the work has been excellent, with a quick turnaround. I haven't sat down and compared with the mounting plates removed, but my recollection is that the PRP milling job seemed directly comparable to that done by the factory on my XDM OSP. If you end up with another slide and want the work done, I'd check them out when looking for options.

I applaud your goal of keeping the spending local, but ... yeah it hurts to read your description.

Good luck!

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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#6

Post by SRO1911 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:01 pm

SigM4 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm

Email me pictures if you’d like and I’ll post them for you. I’m sure others would like to see the mess you’re describing as well.
Thank you for the offer. Pics sent.

The local aspect was good, especially since the owner is a fellow volunteer firefighter as well (different department thankfully) - the expected turn around time is what truly sold me.

After pulling it all apart again and getting better pics, as well as pulling out my calipers, and micrometers, and depth gauges (starretts, except the calipers which are brown and sharp) and putting them all on certified standards, I'm not mad anymore.
I was mad when Obama won a second term.
I was mad when a fox got into my quail pen and wiped out 158 birds in one afternoon.
I was mad someone used my identity to rip off Aaron's furniture (those people are more persistent than the IRS and less polite than the Russian Mafia).


I'm absolutely disgusted.

They did not use the factory 6-48 torx screws from vortex, instead it looks like some bolt bin grade 6-32 hex screws. There is enough play for the sight to rotate several degrees towards 11 o'clock.
So at least quarterly, I've got to remove the sight to replace the battery - and return to zero ain't happening.
When any govt, or church,says This you can't read, are forbidden to know, the result is tyranny and oppression. Little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked; no force can control a free man, not the rack, bombs, not anything, you can't conquer a free man, at most you can kill him.


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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#7

Post by SigM4 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:15 pm

After seeing the pictures I'm inclined to say you need to go back to the shop and ask how they're going to make this right or if they refuse start the charge back process through the provider (if you paid with a CC). That's downright atrocious. I mean, drilling into the extractor is just the worst. That part needs to be able to move freely, not just for function but should you ever need to remove it now you can't. Was the removal of the LCI part of the initial discussion when this work was proposed?

Beyond that the use of the random Allen screws vs. the Torx screws provided speaks to their inability to even use a basic level of common sense.

Would love to know the name of the place.
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#8

Post by SRO1911 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:26 pm

Yes, removing the loaded chamber indicator was planned - no way to keep it and maintain the integrity of the rear sight dovetail. Particularly since I have switched to the oddball advantage tactical sights.
Paid cash, as is my usual practice.
The rough milling, the slight oversize front to back, buggering the striker spring, replacing fine thread with course thread screws, poor communication, weeks behind schedule....
Any one of those I could rationalize or work with.
Any two maybe.
Drilling the extractor though.
When any govt, or church,says This you can't read, are forbidden to know, the result is tyranny and oppression. Little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked; no force can control a free man, not the rack, bombs, not anything, you can't conquer a free man, at most you can kill him.

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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#9

Post by SRO1911 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:31 pm

I am going to reach out to the gunsmith, not the business owner 'yet', and discuss using an appropriate mounting plate - drilled and tapped in a non critical location, with the appropriate fasteners. Along with replacing the extractor of course.

The alternative is either an OEM slide sent to a reputable company to be modified correctly or a quality aftermarket slide like a DV8 or similar that comes from the manufacturer optics ready.
This whole thing is (insert preferred term of endearment), if the company chooses not to work with me on this then I will gladly share their info here, and with the BBB, and Yelp, and the local coffee shop..........
When any govt, or church,says This you can't read, are forbidden to know, the result is tyranny and oppression. Little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked; no force can control a free man, not the rack, bombs, not anything, you can't conquer a free man, at most you can kill him.

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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#10

Post by AndyC » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:34 pm

Nope, I'd take it back and expect a replacement slide.
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#11

Post by TreyHouston » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:40 pm

AndyC wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:34 pm
Nope, I'd take it back and expect a replacement slide.
Agreed, take me back to “before it happened”. Then, find someone else
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#12

Post by SQLGeek » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:19 pm

That's a lot of chatter.

Looks like somebody stuck the slide in the mill and started cutting away without even thinking through what they were doing.
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#13

Post by puma guy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:38 am

AndyC wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:34 pm
Nope, I'd take it back and expect a replacement slide.
:iagree:
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#14

Post by Scott B. » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:57 am

If the optic is moving, that is not acceptable. Hopefully you can come to an accommodation.

My advice to customers, when seeking slide work, is to ask if the shop has ever done their model of firearm before. You don't want to be somebody's test run.
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Re: Opinion on gunsmith situation

#15

Post by Rob72 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:41 am

https://www.xdgunparts.com/product/DD_XDM3-8.html
From the XD forum:
Rbrad1
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#2 • Mar 5, 2014
When I had my XDm .45, I called Springfield and they said that they would do the work. It would be about 6 weeks. That was back in 2011.
Between the cost of the slide, and the work you were charged for, which was found to be substandard and functionally unsafe, it qualifies for small claims court. If the owner is a S&W Dealer, this could be addressed with S&W on that basis as well (e.g., owner could call, asking for a dealer-price slide with factory mill, or you can contact S&W about the misbehavior of a dealer). Hopefully, they'll spend the ~$500 and get you an RMR slide without publicity and court.

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