Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

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ORIGINAL TEX
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Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

#1

Post by ORIGINAL TEX »

Couple of questions and a couple of thoughts.

I shoot IDPA with a local Houston Club and a couple of major matches each year - IDPA. I have noticed the Stock Service Pistol and Custom Defensive Pistol divisions shrinking while the Carry Optics division is growing - especially in at my local club weekly matches.

I have a Holosun on my AR that I like (a LOT) and it works well, but I am having issues when I attempt red dots (optics) on a pistol. Note that my carbine red dot is mounted about as far forward as the rifle will allow - just short of where the barrel ties into the upper. On my carbine the red (actually green) is clear and sharp, but on a pistol everything is fuzzy, out of focus and the red dot has sort of a star burst effect similar to street lights when I was a kid and had spend too much time in a heavily chlorinated pool. I believe the issue is because my corrected vision set up is that my dominate eye (right) is corrected for fairly close up and my left eye for distance. When I attempt to look through the pistol red dot with my left (distance) eye, the red dot and target are sharp and in clear focus, but my right eye muddies everything up. I don't have an issue with on my AR possibly because the optic is mounted further away from my dominate (close in) eye, or the engineers that designed the larger rifle optic knew it was for longer eye relief and designed it that way. WAG on my part about that.

Hence my question - does anyone make a red dot optic for pistols that can be focused or tuned for someone having the difficulties with them that I described?

Thoughts:

1. Elbow in the rib mode - only soft, weak untrained wimps use red dots optics on pistols : ). Tired of getting ass kicked at local matches. I usually take first place in my division, but that is not saying much when the only person not shooting carry optics just started out in the sports a week ago.

2. I have heard that some police departments do not allow officers to use red dot optics for two reasons; one is that in the event of rain splashing on the lens the red dot scatters or becomes multiple red dots - causing confusion, and that if an officer was in a very cold environment, such as an air conditioned vehicle and then stepped out into a hot highly humid environment the lens can fog up. IMHO this particular issue could be avoided by the right lens coating application, but I am no expert on the subject.

3. I have noticed at matches that the shooters will always check and sometimes turn on the optic after the "Shooter Make Ready" command at matches. This will not be a survival-able option for you if the goblins pay you a visit in a real life encounter. Not necessary with standard iron sights despite their supposed short comings.

That is all - all usable, sane, replies appreciated
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carlson1
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

#2

Post by carlson1 »

I have a starburst when I am using my red dot. I didn’t want to try switching over to green because it would be a lot of sights to buy.

As far as the police are concerned that are using optics on pistols that I know are using red.
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Grayling813
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

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Post by Grayling813 »

ORIGINAL TEX wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:17 pm

Hence my question - does anyone make a red dot optic for pistols that can be focused or tuned for someone having the difficulties with them that I described?

When I look through RDS (red or green) I see that same starburst. The research I did said this is usually caused by an astigmatism in the eye or eyes.
I haven’t found one that has any kind of adjustable focus either.
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Paladin
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

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Post by Paladin »

My eyes tend to do much better with green. Red is blurry, but green is crisp. Your mileage may vary. Green dots are easier for most people to pick up as well.

So far I've had little benefit from a dot on my pistol, but I'll keep practicing and see how it goes.
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Jose_in_Dallas
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

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Post by Jose_in_Dallas »

1. Elbow in the rib mode - only soft, weak untrained wimps use red dots optics on pistols : ). Tired of getting ass kicked at local matches. I usually take first place in my division, but that is not saying much when the only person not shooting carry optics just started out in the sports a week ago.
This is the way I see it. People train, compete, the same way they will carry, shoot in a real life situation. At least I would hope so. I carry an optic because I started having trouble focusing on the sights/target. And this was magnified at night regardless of running night sights. With an optic, I have no problems and can remain totally target focused. I've been shooting a PMO (pistol mounted optic) for almost 3 years, took a few classes where I shot with it including a 5 day Gunsite 250 Red Dot Class. I'm very comfortable with shooting with it that I've gone PMO on two of my other pistols now.
2. I have heard that some police departments do not allow officers to use red dot optics for two reasons; one is that in the event of rain splashing on the lens the red dot scatters or becomes multiple red dots - causing confusion, and that if an officer was in a very cold environment, such as an air conditioned vehicle and then stepped out into a hot highly humid environment the lens can fog up. IMHO this particular issue could be avoided by the right lens coating application, but I am no expert on the subject.
I say it comes down to training. The rain/water/fog issues can all be addressed. An enclosed emitter tends to fix a lot of this. When I took the Gunsite 250 Red Dot class, one of the drills we did was actually spraying water into our optic to simulate just that. Yes it's harder to see but usable. And all goes away after the first shot. Go figure that slide recoil clears the water out of the optic :lol:
3. I have noticed at matches that the shooters will always check and sometimes turn on the optic after the "Shooter Make Ready" command at matches. This will not be a survival-able option for you if the goblins pay you a visit in a real life encounter. Not necessary with standard iron sights despite their supposed short comings.
If they are doing that during matches, they are doing something wrong. Other than the first Gen Aimpoint Acro's (P1), almost every dot I know of has a battery life measured in months if not years. I have yet to change the batteries on mine but will soon. I know some people say to change it every year, but my Holosun's also have a solar backup that extends the life. Regardless, I will be changing them next year on my birthday (have it marked on my calendar app on my phone).

Jose_in_Dallas
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

#6

Post by Jose_in_Dallas »

Grayling813 wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 7:28 am When I look through RDS (red or green) I see that same starburst. The research I did said this is usually caused by an astigmatism in the eye or eyes.
I haven’t found one that has any kind of adjustable focus either.
I've heard that turning the brightness down on the dot helps with that.
Paladin wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:13 am My eyes tend to do much better with green. Red is blurry, but green is crisp. Your mileage may vary. Green dots are easier for most people to pick up as well.

So far I've had little benefit from a dot on my pistol, but I'll keep practicing and see how it goes.
I need to try one in green. For me, it took a while to get used to it, probably a solid year of practice, classes, and range time till I can pick up the dot automatically when I draw.

NotRPB
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

#7

Post by NotRPB »

I have Presbyopia, Myopia and Astigmatism so i chose green based on people's reviews that green is better with astigatism ( I don't really know if it is or not), red might be faster to find, i don't know, try both if you can.

For years I've used ATS Advantage Tactical Sights (OuterImpact owns it now) Pyramid shaped iron sights that form a triangle & come with lots of color inserts you can use, & allow one-hand operation of the slide..
The typical rear did not fit with my new green dot, and so I switched to "dark diamond" ATS Advantage Tactical Sights (OuterImpact owns it now) Pyramid shaped rear sight
They co-witness well on my pistol.

After testing against all color backgrounds (Why do many bad guy mass-shooters like to wear all tactical black lately?) in all lighting conditions,backgrounds I always used a yellow front pyramid top and an orange rear.

After bore sighting my green circle -Dot Holosun eps carry multi reticle System optics, On my Taurus Gx4 i still find the iron sights first THROUGH the OPTIC, and verify/boost confidence level I'm on target with the circle dot.

After testing against various colored backgrounds and light conditions, I am about to change front sight from yellow, to the blue (glows really bright) or reddish/"coral" (contrasts to green well) firefly sight as the yellow front doesn't seem as great looking through optics and contrast to the green could be better than yellow+green in the optic, but I still use yellow front pyramid top on pistols without optics.
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carlson1
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

#8

Post by carlson1 »

Articles worth reading. I believe Mr. Cotton put them up a while back.

https://lockedback.com/
http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_c8 ... 3fce6f.pdf
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Ruark
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Re: Red Dot (or green dot) pistol optics

#9

Post by Ruark »

If you wear glasses, especially with a relatively strong prescription and some astigmatism, the lens can also "smear" the red dot.
-Ruark
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