Carrying on someones private property

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dsim
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Carrying on someones private property

#1

Post by dsim » Thu May 16, 2019 3:29 pm

I cannot seem to locate an answer to this question in the statutes, unless by private property you mean a business. I was wondering if it would be legal to carry at someones residence without their permission. Had an instance the other day where someone that was invited over to a friends house (on 10 acres) was carrying concealed, I do not know if they have an LTC but they were printing big time. They were not on the property for long, it was just a quick deal, but I was wondering if it was necessary to post 30.06/30.07 signs at the front gate in order to stop it from happening again.

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#2

Post by Papa_Tiger » Thu May 16, 2019 3:45 pm

dsim wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:29 pm
I cannot seem to locate an answer to this question in the statutes, unless by private property you mean a business. I was wondering if it would be legal to carry at someones residence without their permission. Had an instance the other day where someone that was invited over to a friends house (on 10 acres) was carrying concealed, I do not know if they have an LTC but they were printing big time. They were not on the property for long, it was just a quick deal, but I was wondering if it was necessary to post 30.06/30.07 signs at the front gate in order to stop it from happening again.

Thanks in advance.
A good way to handle law in general is that unless it is prohibited, it is legal. In this case, the law states that if a person has an LTC, they may carry in public. It becomes trespass by a license holder if they are notified by any of the methods outlined in 30.06 or 30.07 (sign, card, oral notification) that carrying is prohibited in that location. Note that this notification only becomes effective once they leave their vehicle.

No you would not have to post a sign unless you want to avoid handing a card or giving direct oral notification to the individual.


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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#3

Post by crazy2medic » Thu May 16, 2019 3:52 pm

I can't speak for others but for me, if I pull up to a gate that's posted, I'd back out and go home! They'd just have to wonder what happened to their buyer or whatever transaction was suppose to take place! There would be no way I'd go out in the country unarmed! My 2cents.
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#4

Post by WTR » Thu May 16, 2019 3:58 pm

dsim wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:29 pm
I cannot seem to locate an answer to this question in the statutes, unless by private property you mean a business. I was wondering if it would be legal to carry at someones residence without their permission. Had an instance the other day where someone that was invited over to a friends house (on 10 acres) was carrying concealed, I do not know if they have an LTC but they were printing big time. They were not on the property for long, it was just a quick deal, but I was wondering if it was necessary to post 30.06/30.07 signs at the front gate in order to stop it from happening again.

Thanks in advance.
I just post no trespassing signs. If I invite someone on my property, they are welcome to carry.


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dsim
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#5

Post by dsim » Thu May 16, 2019 4:09 pm

WTR wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:58 pm

I just post no trespassing signs. If I invite someone on my property, they are welcome to carry.
Even if you do not know the individual from something other than an email exchange? I agree that it was wreckless, just trying to see if there is another solution besides signage and/or an oral warning.

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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#6

Post by Keith B » Thu May 16, 2019 4:12 pm

dsim wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:29 pm
I cannot seem to locate an answer to this question in the statutes, unless by private property you mean a business. I was wondering if it would be legal to carry at someones residence without their permission. Had an instance the other day where someone that was invited over to a friends house (on 10 acres) was carrying concealed, I do not know if they have an LTC but they were printing big time. They were not on the property for long, it was just a quick deal, but I was wondering if it was necessary to post 30.06/30.07 signs at the front gate in order to stop it from happening again.

Thanks in advance.
In Texas there is no requirement to notify the property owner you are carrying. Some states, like Arkansas, have the requirement to inform the homeowner that you are armed before entering.

My question is, if you invite someone over, why would you care if they were carrying legally? And, if they are not carrying legally, a 30.06/07 sign is not gonna stop them, just the person who is legal. If I had someone post because I was legally carrying they would be de-friended faster than I de-friend someone on Facebook.
Keith
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#7

Post by WTR » Thu May 16, 2019 4:13 pm

dsim wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:09 pm
WTR wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:58 pm

I just post no trespassing signs. If I invite someone on my property, they are welcome to carry.
Even if you do not know the individual from something other than an email exchange? I agree that it was wreckless, just trying to see if there is another solution besides signage and/or an oral warning.
If someone is on my property I assume they are armed. No one from an email exchange is going to be allowed on my property. Wherever we agree to meet, I will be armed.


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dsim
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#8

Post by dsim » Thu May 16, 2019 4:26 pm

I appreciate the replies. Lesson learned on this one, no more unknown visitors to the property.

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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#9

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu May 16, 2019 5:18 pm

dsim wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:26 pm
I appreciate the replies. Lesson learned on this one, no more unknown visitors to the property.
Back when I was new to CHL/LTC, I had similar concerns. 11 years later, not so much. People are frequently armed in this state - frequently lawfully, but not always. Signage only keeps out the ones you don’t really need to worry about. In fact, it keeps out the very ones who might end up being on your side in a scrape with a bad guy with a gun. There’s a famous quote from Suzanna Gratia Hupp, who said:
How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of.
I’ve extended that in my personal outlook towards other individuals. I can choose to view each individual as part of an unruly crowd, or I can choose to view them as my trustworthy and productive fellow citizen.

If a bad person enters my property, armed and with evil intent, he’s at least outnumbered by one - as both my wife and I are at home and armed - and he’s outgunned by .... well...with as many loaded guns as there are in my home, he’s outgunned by a substantial number.

I wouldn’t allow anybody to roam a property of mine unattended and without permission - armed or not. But similarly, if I allow them on the property, then it isn’t relevant to me if they’re armed or not.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#10

Post by Liberty » Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 pm

I don't understand the issue. I pretty much don't go anywhere without packing. It is what good responsible men do. If I am not welcome while I'm packing, I am not welcome. Hoplophobics are not welcome in my life. People with unreasoned fear of guns and the good people that carry are an inferior breed.
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#11

Post by Keith B » Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm

dsim wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:26 pm
I appreciate the replies. Lesson learned on this one, no more unknown visitors to the property.
Just a guess here, but was this some type of person buying or selling something? If something like a Craigslist buy, I don't go to ANY of them without being armed. Period.
Keith
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#12

Post by KLB » Thu May 16, 2019 7:49 pm

Keith B wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
Just a guess here, but was this some type of person buying or selling something? If something like a Craigslist buy, I don't go to ANY of them without being armed. Period.
A wise policy. But in connection with a writing group I belong to, I find myself going into people's homes when I have no idea of their position on guns. YMMV, but I see it not as a matter of law but of etiquette not to carry in such cases, though my weapon is often in the car.

Again, YMMV. Make your own call.

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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#13

Post by Liberty » Thu May 16, 2019 8:16 pm

KLB wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:49 pm
Keith B wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
Just a guess here, but was this some type of person buying or selling something? If something like a Craigslist buy, I don't go to ANY of them without being armed. Period.
A wise policy. But in connection with a writing group I belong to, I find myself going into people's homes when I have no idea of their position on guns. YMMV, but I see it not as a matter of law but of etiquette not to carry in such cases, though my weapon is often in the car.

Again, YMMV. Make your own call.
As a matter of courtesy, I find what people carry stuffed in their pants is none of my business and what's stuffed in mine is none of theirs. Concealed is concealed.

Although I will not carry if I know there are very young kids present.
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy

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Jeff B.
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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#14

Post by Jeff B. » Thu May 16, 2019 8:33 pm

As a matter of courtesy, I find what people carry stuffed in their pants is none of my business and what's stuffed in mine is none of theirs. Concealed is concealed.
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I like that quote and the philosophy behind it!

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Re: Carrying on someones private property

#15

Post by Txtension » Thu May 16, 2019 10:07 pm

Although I will not carry if I know there are very young kids present.
Why the disconnect? It seems unreasonable that any risk brought to the table is any more or less justifiable based on age alone. Unless you're often tagged into hide-and-go-seek or pull off some crazy dance moves. But one could logically disarm at that point because of the activities.

Lots of (bad) laws get pushed with "think of the children". :tiphat:

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