Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

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Crossfire
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#16

Post by Crossfire » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:09 pm

couzin wrote:I was simply asking, why, pray tell, would anyone even consider showing up at the range qualification with a short barrel AR with (or without for that matter) a brace?
Why would anyone show up to qualify with a Judge? Or a Bond Arms derringer chambered in 45/410?

Because they can. Or... more accurately, because they THINK they can! ;-)
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#17

Post by JRG » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:26 pm

locke_n_load wrote:
I would allow it. But remember, you are not allowed to use optics, red dots, lasers, etc. Only open sights.
Has it always been this way? I have had a Shield 9mm with the green Crimson Trace laser for the past 8 months or so. It is my first laser equipped weapon. I cannot use it for my next renewal class?

Joe


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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#18

Post by twomillenium » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:54 pm

JRG wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
I would allow it. But remember, you are not allowed to use optics, red dots, lasers, etc. Only open sights.
Has it always been this way? I have had a Shield 9mm with the green Crimson Trace laser for the past 8 months or so. It is my first laser equipped weapon. I cannot use it for my next renewal class?

Joe
Sure you can use the Shield 9mm to qualify with but you cannot use the laser just turn it off or cover it.
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#19

Post by rob777 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:42 pm

twomillenium wrote:
JRG wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
I would allow it. But remember, you are not allowed to use optics, red dots, lasers, etc. Only open sights.
Has it always been this way? I have had a Shield 9mm with the green Crimson Trace laser for the past 8 months or so. It is my first laser equipped weapon. I cannot use it for my next renewal class?

Joe
Sure you can use the Shield 9mm to qualify with but you cannot use the laser just turn it off or cover it.
There are no renewal classes (anymore) so you won't get the chance.
I believe the TAC states lasers are not permitted. I'd guess many instructors won't let you use a handgun outfitted with a laser unless you can prove it's disabled.
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#20

Post by twomillenium » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:14 am

rob777 wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
JRG wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
I would allow it. But remember, you are not allowed to use optics, red dots, lasers, etc. Only open sights.
Has it always been this way? I have had a Shield 9mm with the green Crimson Trace laser for the past 8 months or so. It is my first laser equipped weapon. I cannot use it for my next renewal class?

Joe
Sure you can use the Shield 9mm to qualify with but you cannot use the laser just turn it off or cover it.
There are no renewal classes (anymore) so you won't get the chance.
I believe the TAC states lasers are not permitted. I'd guess many instructors won't let you use a handgun outfitted with a laser unless you can prove it's disabled.
There are still renewal classes for instructors, but you still would not get a chance, because the laser is not permitted. I do not make students prove it is disabled, I tell them if they use it (even if it accidental turns on) they will be immediately disqualified and have to redo the proficiency part of the class. (they get 3 chances to pass). If an instructor does not notice that a laser is being used then maybe they are not doing their job.
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#21

Post by JRG » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:28 pm

rob777 wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
JRG wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
I would allow it. But remember, you are not allowed to use optics, red dots, lasers, etc. Only open sights.
Has it always been this way? I have had a Shield 9mm with the green Crimson Trace laser for the past 8 months or so. It is my first laser equipped weapon. I cannot use it for my next renewal class?

Joe
Sure you can use the Shield 9mm to qualify with but you cannot use the laser just turn it off or cover it.
There are no renewal classes (anymore) so you won't get the chance.
I believe the TAC states lasers are not permitted. I'd guess many instructors won't let you use a handgun outfitted with a laser unless you can prove it's disabled.
Ummmm.............so when my CHL comes up for renewal, I won't have to take the usual half day class to renew?

Joe

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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#22

Post by rob777 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:05 pm

JRG wrote:
Ummmm.............so when my CHL comes up for renewal, I won't have to take the usual half day class to renew?

Joe
Correct. in the LTC-16 on page 14, GC §411.185 says (in summary)
- submit your renewal application
- pay the fee (now only $40)
- sign affidavit(s) saying you understand the current laws
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#23

Post by Pawpaw » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 pm

JRG wrote:
rob777 wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
JRG wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
I would allow it. But remember, you are not allowed to use optics, red dots, lasers, etc. Only open sights.
Has it always been this way? I have had a Shield 9mm with the green Crimson Trace laser for the past 8 months or so. It is my first laser equipped weapon. I cannot use it for my next renewal class?

Joe
Sure you can use the Shield 9mm to qualify with but you cannot use the laser just turn it off or cover it.
There are no renewal classes (anymore) so you won't get the chance.
I believe the TAC states lasers are not permitted. I'd guess many instructors won't let you use a handgun outfitted with a laser unless you can prove it's disabled.
Ummmm.............so when my CHL comes up for renewal, I won't have to take the usual half day class to renew?

Joe
Nope. Just renew on line and forget about it.

It's been that way for about 4 years.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#24

Post by flechero » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:52 am

couzin wrote: Why would anyone show up to qualify with a Judge? Or a Bond Arms derringer chambered in 45/410?
Because that's all they had or all they were able to borrow... not everyone has a safe full of handguns to choose from. And a surprising number of people wait until after getting the LTC to buy a gun of their own.

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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#25

Post by Lynyrd » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:28 am

Since this thread has already drifted, and with all this talk about what's okay to qualify with, I'll share a story about the day I first qualified.

There was a tall lanky gentleman with white hair that showed up for the class. When it came time for us to go to the range, he put on a Colt 1911 in a holster with a flap over the top that looked to be older than I was. You could clearly read the embossed USMC on the flap. When it came time to shoot, he stood at the firing line and turned sideways to the target. He raised the gun with his right hand and put his left hand behind his back, as if taking a dueling stance. He was able to get his fist shot off which struck dead center before our instructor stopped everyone.

The instructor approached this gentleman and said we can't fire the gun with one hand, and showed him how he wanted him to grip the gun with two hands and face the target head on. The old gentleman listened quietly and simply said, "Yes sir."

The instructor stepped back away from us and then gave the order to continue firing. The old gentleman proceeded to put his next four shots dead center while facing the target and using both hands.

I was standing in the lane next to this old gentleman and saw his target when we had finished shooting that day. Almost every shot was inside the 10 ring and the rest were inside the 9. I'm not sure why the instructor wouldn't allow one handed shooting, but for this man it didn't matter. I would like to have seen what he would have shot from his preferred stance though.

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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#26

Post by couzin » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:31 am

flechero wrote:
couzin wrote: Why would anyone show up to qualify with a Judge? Or a Bond Arms derringer chambered in 45/410?
Because that's all they had or all they were able to borrow... not everyone has a safe full of handguns to choose from. And a surprising number of people wait until after getting the LTC to buy a gun of their own.
Uhh - I didn't say that...that was Crossfire. I was commenting on bringing a AR pistol with shoulder stock or brace to the qualification. But for sure I do not know how one would handle a two shot derringer in the timed drills, not to mention 50 rounds of 45/410. My comments were toward practicality of the qualification firearm whether the participant intended to carry that weapon or not is not relevant. Although - I actually would be a little concerned about someone who showed up at qualification with a pistol AR with brace or shoulder stock (however legal) and intended to make that their carry weapon....
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#27

Post by Crossfire » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:43 pm

Yes, that was me. I said that.

And I did not mean to imply that everyone who comes to a LTC class should have a full arsenal of handguns to choose from. Actually, most of the people who have shown up with an "out of the ordinary" firearm for qualification have been renewals (back when there was a renewal class). Not because it was all they had. Usually because they wanted to prove something.

We always offer a loaner firearm to anyone who needs it. And, by the way, the person with the derringer politely declined the offer. At least, for the first qualification try.
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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#28

Post by flechero » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:38 am

Sorry for mixing it up in the quote box....

I originally thought it was a legit question. (I know a few that would do that) I see now it was probably intended to be more of a rhetorical question :tiphat:


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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#29

Post by Abraham » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:33 pm

Like using one hand to shoot his pistol placing the other on his hip old guy, that was how I was taught to shoot a pistol in the Army in 1967.

Why we had to shoot employing this posture was something not explained.

Years later, I was told it came from the cavalry days. When dismounted, you held the reins in one hand and shot your pistol facing away from your horse in the other. Placing your non-shooting hand on your hip simulated holding the reins.

Now, without a limit on caliber size to qualify for LTC range qualifications, I see a .22 cal LR/or Magnum and/or .17 (either one) adequate for qualification.

Am I right?

Yes/No?

Thanks!


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Re: Minimum Caliber for Handgun Proficiency Exam

#30

Post by Medley86 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:05 pm

I was never intending to get that far out with my comment. I don't know anyone who carries a pistol ar as anything other than a truck gun. At the same time the gun I qualified with I never had any intention of carrying. Fast forward a few years and I actually do carry it some of the time. I still wouldn't want to have to try to shoot a qualification with my normal carry, it's not fun to shoot and I don't ever practice past about 7 yards with it.
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