Traffic Violation

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by stash » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:21 am

Liberty just made me think of something. My two vehicles (car & truck) do not have auto windows. With my back, there is no way I could reach from the drivers side and roll down the passenger window if the LEO approaches from that side. I guess I would just have to talk loud to him and ask him to come around to my side of the vehicle. This has never occurred to me, but then again I have not been stopped in over 50 or so years.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by Abraham » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 am

Re-read Oldgringo's advice.

I haven't been stopped by an LEO in 50 years of driving.

Obey traffic laws and the chance of being stopped isn't quite, but almost nil...

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by Acronym Esq » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:35 am

JGon wrote:Awaiting still for my LCT to arrive...lets say I have my ltc and get stopped for a minor traffic violation. Does most people just keep both hands on steering wheel with both licences in hand? I had a plan to always keep my wallet on the dash close to the window and keep both hands on the wheel within sight.
Glad to see you are pondering the minutiae of carrying. I hope you can see from the response to your question that reasonable people can disagree and that situations are unpredictable.

I wait for instructions from the officer. Interior light on; hands visible on the wheel. I do not fidget in my car prior to talking to him.

My thought is that I don't know what the cop wants. I had a recent rude interaction with a cop where all he wanted was for me to move my car. I was clearly an annoying little part of his long day. A couple years ago, my wife was pulled over by a few cops with guns and flashlights on her. "Wrong car" he shouted into his radio and they were gone.

If the cop wants me to go reaching for something, I tell the cop I have an LTC, that I'm carrying, where it is, and I ask him how to proceed.

Cops aren't your friends. Be polite and respectful by not wasting their time. Don't give them any information you don't have to (must ID if you have an LTC and are carrying). They are always looking for someone to incriminate themselves.

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by tool4daman » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:56 am

Agree with acronym. Cops are not your friends stopping you just to chit chat. You are their "customer" and they are stopping you for a business interaction. Be respectful and await their instructions. Then politely do what you are instructed to do.
Last edited by tool4daman on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by Abraham » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:40 am

Over time, I've had many a personal friend who were/are in law enforcement.

In all the years of knowing them socially never, not once, did I ever hear any discussion of how they could entrap the average law abiding citizen.

Are there some bad ones?

Sure and you've got bad ones in every and all professions, but most are good, honest reliable people.

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by JGon » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:31 am

Thank y'all for all the great responses. Sometimes people get stopped for things they cannot control ie tail light goes while driving.I plan on just keeping my hands on the wheel and have already put my insurance card and registration in my visor and I am training myself to place my wallet on the dash every time I enter one of my vehicles. I am doing all this just to eliminate any far reaching in my vehicles.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by twomillenium » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:38 am

lonestar144 wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
lonestar144 wrote:Before LEO gets to your car, have your DL, LTC and insurance in hand with your hands on steering wheel. This will prevent any misunderstandings that might arise if you start grabbing for stuff after officer has approached the vehicle.
Huh???? Don't you think the LEO can see you fumbling around before he gets to your car? The LEO has no idea what you are doing! Place you hands on the steering wheel and proceed with the exact legal instructions the LEO will give you. I assure you the LEO will be much more appreciative of those actions instead of trying to figure out what you are doing as he approaches and whether or not he is in danger.
There is a difference in fumbling around the vehicle and merely opening glove box, center console, etc getting the proper documentation ready for the officer when he reaches you. I have my insurance on the visor for easier reach. My chl instructor was an ex LEO, currently a security guard and self defense instructor, he advised us to do as what I posted earlier.

Couple days ago, my daughter told me a story of how her teacher, which is a LTC holder, did have his DL and LTC license already available. Officer asked if he was carrying, he said yes and where on his person it was located. Guess what, his insurance was in center console, right next to where he was carrying. When he went for the insurance and officer knew the firearm was in the same location where he was reaching and officer drew his pistol. Ended up being a longer ordeal than what it should have been.

Conclusion, be prepared and have documents placed for easy reach and have them ready for officer when he approaches the vehicle. Would be nice if other ex or current LEO's here would chime in a give their suggestions.
If you want to follow his advice then there is no law against it. People follow bad advice all the time and that is just what it is. That is my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions. The best way to handle a traffic stop is the way every LEO, that I know, recommends the instructor teach it in the LTC course. Which, simply put, is: 1. Turn off engine and at least partially roll down window, 2. place hands where they can be seen, 3. if at night turn on dome light, 4. Follow the lawful instructions given by the LEO during a traffic stop. 5. Do not vary from the instructions given you without first communicating to the LEO the reason and getting permission to do so.
I have also found that even if the LEO seems rude your kind demeanor will almost always change the LEO's demeanor in your favor. Unless you are barreling through a school zone, for some reason that really tends to PO most LEOs. :tiphat:
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by flechero » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:08 am

JGon wrote:...and I am training myself to place my wallet on the dash every time I enter one of my vehicles....
I would not do that- between emergencies and accidents, you will eventually lose the wallet. Just get it out of your pocket when you come to a stop... that's still gives you plenty of time before the LEO stops his car, gets out and makes it to your car.

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by cowhow » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:44 pm

If you drove like my wife this entire conversation would be moot.

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by nightmare69 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:48 pm

The less moving and fumbling around you do before the officer gives you permission to do so the better.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by SigM4 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:03 pm

It amazes me that everyone here thinks cops aren't used to folks digging through wallets/consoles/glove compartments prior to them getting to the window. I'd wager to guess that 95% of stops involve the driver searching for ID/insurance either before or while the officer approaches. On top of this every time I've been pulled over the officer usually spends 10-15 seconds in the car before approaching my vehicle. In the probably half dozen times I've been pulled over in the last 12 years of carrying I've always had more than enough time to get my wallet out of my back pocket, get my IDs out, turn off the vehicle, roll drivers side window(s) down, put keys on the dash in easy view of the officer, and turn on the dome light (if dark) long before the officer got to the window. Is this the best approach? Who knows, but it works for me. Everyone is different and everyone's definition of "best" is subjective to their situation. So anyone in this thread saying one approach is better than another needs to take a step back unless you know all the details.

What I will say, the ultimate goal, whatever method you adopt, is to put both you and the officer the most at-ease. So whatever it takes for you to get there, go for it. Just know that what works for you might not work for me, and vice versa.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by bbhack » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:35 am

It was not that many years ago that a major worry for people was that the person doing the stop was not a real cop, especially in the county roads. Women, especially, should drive until there is a safe place with others around before stopping. Trust works both ways.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by Abraham » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:18 am

I have the same concern as bbhack, but if a person isn't totally certain the LEO attempting a stop is possibly not legitimate and drives for many miles before stopping, all the while with the flashing light and siren blaring behind them and they (the LEO) turns out to be legitimate, I can see a possible nightmare scenario when finally stopping.

Getting pit maneuver stopped, or gawd knows what else might happen when the stop is finally made.

I can imagine a scenario of a drawn gun by the LEO, physically treated roughly, etc. or worse if the LEO is a lone, frightened or simply super nervous rookie with poor trigger discipline with firearm or taser...

So what to do if you don't carry a cell phone and if you do, how do you know the number to call to verify if the stop and officer are legitimate?

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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by Pariah3j » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:52 pm

I find the advice to just not speed or break the law a little insulting. Perfectly safe and law-abiding people get pulled over all the time. Your tail light might be burnt out, you might match the description of a person of interest, or be driving a car that matches a description. There are any number of reasons.

I was once pulled over because of 'driving while white'. I was going to a friends house who lived near a bad neighborhood. The neighborhood in question is a drug den, and predominantly black. I stopped at a 4 way stop, to the right brings you into the neighborhood, to the left took me down the road to my friend's house. The cop and I met at the intersection, I must have out of instinct swung the car a little right as I stopped, getting ready to make the left hand turn - the cop thought I was getting ready to go into the neighborhood until I saw him and then changed my mind. I didn't have my LTC then but one of several perfect examples where I've gotten pulled over for nothing I did wrong.

Since getting my LTC, I've been pulled over a couple times. Both times I pulled out my wallet from my back pocket and had it in my hands resting on the steering wheel. My thinking being I have to reach past my pistol on my hip to reach my wallet in my bad pocket. My having already done that and putting it in view so the officer can see what I reached for has worked well for me. So to each his own, I've never had a cop question me about moving around or chastise me for doing so before they walked up because it becomes quickly apparent what I did and why. Now if you have your insurance somewhere else like the glove box, fumbling around in there before the cop comes up probably would give them pause or might raise some suspicion.
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Re: Traffic Violation


Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:57 pm

Oldgringo wrote:Here's another thought: don't speed, don't weave, don't run red lights and drive safely obeying traffic laws and you shouldn't have to worry about traffic violation stops.
:iagree: and I'll include a few others:

Don't drive in the left lane. If no one is in front of you, get over. Don't wait til someone is right behind you.

Signal for lane changes well ahead of time.

Don't change lanes in or near an intersection.

Don't drive a vehicle with broken of defective equipment (windshields, tail lights, etc).

Keep your tabs up to date.

Basically apply the same attitude to driving that most of us apply to 30.06 signage. Follow the law. Period.
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