The Pope has resigned!!

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anygunanywhere
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#16

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:28 pm

rwg3 wrote:
Texas Dan Mosby wrote:That particular organization has protected and facilitated countless individuals, over the years, who have been responsible for conducting one of THE most heinous crimes imaginable against CHILDREN.

Using a position of trust to exploit children is straight up EVIL IMHO. However, knowing about it as a leader, and not prosecuting the offender, is even worse in my eyes.

I have NO patience with individuals that harm children, and fully believe those that abuse kids in a sexual nature should be hung by the neck until dead, be they priest, doctor, bricklayer alike.
+1

IMO It appears to be a smart political move with in the church political system. The cardinals all swear an oath of loyalty to the Pope when he is elected . When there is no Pope they are free to act and vote as their conscience dictates. By resigning before dying the current Pope can exert a fair amount of influence on the selection of his successor. The church has faced unprecedented criticism on a variety of issues and there is a political battle over maintaining a conservative bent or allowing a more liberal movement to occur. This Pope is of the conservative school and this helps insure the continuation of the conservative tradition.
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#17

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:39 pm

rwg3 wrote:
Texas Dan Mosby wrote:That particular organization has protected and facilitated countless individuals, over the years, who have been responsible for conducting one of THE most heinous crimes imaginable against CHILDREN.

Using a position of trust to exploit children is straight up EVIL IMHO. However, knowing about it as a leader, and not prosecuting the offender, is even worse in my eyes.

I have NO patience with individuals that harm children, and fully believe those that abuse kids in a sexual nature should be hung by the neck until dead, be they priest, doctor, bricklayer alike.
+1

IMO It appears to be a smart political move with in the church political system. The cardinals all swear an oath of loyalty to the Pope when he is elected . When there is no Pope they are free to act and vote as their conscience dictates. By resigning before dying the current Pope can exert a fair amount of influence on the selection of his successor. The church has faced unprecedented criticism on a variety of issues and there is a political battle over maintaining a conservative bent or allowing a more liberal movement to occur. This Pope is of the conservative school and this helps insure the continuation of the conservative tradition.
I am not sure where you received your education on all matters Catholic and Vatican but you are way off.

It is not a political move. The Catholic Church is not a political organization run in a democratic manner. The only voting going on indeed will be the Cardinals selecting a new Pope. Their task is to select a successor to Pope Benedict.

The Cardinals swear no oath to obey the new Pope. Obedience to authority is a mark of a true Catholic and ordained clergy.

When there is no Pope the Cardinals are not free to act as their conscience dicateatres. Yes they can vote for whom they want, but there are actually very few Cardinals who would be voted on for Pope. The list is quite narrow.

The current Pope has a limited amount of influence. The Person with the most influence is the Holy Spirit.

The Church is not undergoing a political battle to maintain a conservative bent and avoid a liberal movement. The Church is both conservative and liberal if you use secular society's definitions. If you say that the Cardinals are going to try and prevent a "liberal" track that includes accepting abortion, contraception, and socalled same sex marriage then you are way off.

Your last sentence is nearly correct but remove the word conservative. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is tasked with preserving Sacred Tradition and Church Dogma which cannoty change.

Anygunanywhere
Last edited by anygunanywhere on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#18

Post by snatchel » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:41 pm

+1 ^^^^
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#19

Post by Andrew » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:52 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
Andrew wrote:
LSUTiger wrote:What's a Pople?

Does the Pope's resignation have any bible prophecy or conspiracy theory implications? (not that I equate one with the other, just they are both open to interpretation and require much speculation).
I don't think so. Although liberation theologians and Opus Dei might be happy that he's resigning. Assuring that the marxist driven elements within the Church will see no relief from his successor through his influence in the Episcopacy in general and the College of Cardinals in particular is probably at the top of his to-do list.
Why would Opus Dei be happy he is retiring?

Anygunanywhere
Just my opinion. Benedict has been a study in contrasts. While supporting the spiritual and moral goals of the prelature there have been some points of friction between Benedict and OD. Blurring in the roles of layity and clergy, Benedict is very traditional in his views on the roles of both within the Church. While not really an option, doing without secular clergy would be a goal I believe he would favor. The role of women in OD in leadership/teaching. Focus on works, sure to be a theological thorn in his ecumenical outreach with Reformation churches.
Then again I wonder what his position really is on ecumenical outreach. The "Subsistit in" (from the Lumen Gentium) decision seemed to turn back the clock to a pre Vatican II time.


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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#20

Post by JP171 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:54 pm

now come on AGAW, you knowd you catholicks is jest a buncha pagans worshipin idols an stuff, gettin drunk an chasin skirts even if they was on boys (sarcasm off)

really though AGAW, many here have no real idea what those who are catholic denominational believers really believe and they really don't want to, many of them do the same thing that muslims do, believe what they are told by the minister of their church, never having been exposed to or trying to learn about what catholisism is. no I am not defending ignorance, just trying to give some insight to why.

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#21

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:01 pm

Andrew wrote: Just my opinion. Benedict has been a study in contrasts. While supporting the spiritual and moral goals of the prelature there have been some points of friction between Benedict and OD. Blurring in the roles of layity and clergy, Benedict is very traditional in his views on the roles of both within the Church. While not really an option, doing without secular clergy would be a goal I believe he would favor. The role of women in OD in leadership/teaching. Focus on works, sure to be a theological thorn in his ecumenical outreach with Reformation churches.
Then again I wonder what his position really is on ecumenical outreach. The "Subsistit in" (from the Lumen Gentium) decision seemed to turn back the clock to a pre Vatican II time.
Do you have a firm grasp about Opus Dei?

There have been no blurring in the roles of clergy and laity.

There is no such thing as secular clergy in the Catholic church. Pope Benedict nor any Pope has sought to eliminate the laity from active participation in the Church. They have wanted greater participation. There has always been absolute defined roles for both. The Church cannot exist without the ordained clergy nor the laity. They are both the Church.

Pope Benedict has reached out ecumenically during his tenure. He has pushed many groups (SSPX for example) to return.

Lumen Gentium did not turn back the clock to Pre-Vatican II. Pope Benedict has been trying to repair the misconceptions and errors that disobedient and misguided countries and bishops have taken when "interpreting" Vatican II. The return to the Pre-Vatican II liturgical translations is a prime example.

Anygunanywhere
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#22

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:06 pm

JP171 wrote:now come on AGAW, you knowd you catholicks is jest a buncha pagans worshipin idols an stuff, gettin drunk an chasin skirts even if they was on boys (sarcasm off)

really though AGAW, many here have no real idea what those who are catholic denominational believers really believe and they really don't want to, many of them do the same thing that muslims do, believe what they are told by the minister of their church, never having been exposed to or trying to learn about what catholisism is. no I am not defending ignorance, just trying to give some insight to why.
Seriously, I had to reread your post four times before responding.

You are correct to a point. It seems that folks apply twisted logic to some subjects that they object to when it comes to firearms and their 2A rights.

I will gladly answer any question that anyone has. I am far and away not a scholar. I am just a sinful, repentent Christian, Catholic, who daily tries to do what is right, true, and faithful to my God, my Savior Jesus Christ.

TAM recently made a beatiful profession of his faith and stated succintly how his love for God framed his life. I try with all my heart to respond in a loving manner when I think I have been wronged but I am not always successful.

That is where forgiveness comes into play.

Anygunanywhere
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood


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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#23

Post by mamabearCali » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:14 pm

This will be a turbulent time for the Catholic Church. Prayers for the pope and those selecting the new pope.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.

"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#24

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:15 pm

In case anyone here wants to see the real Opus Dei and not the one depicted in the Dan Brown novels please refer to the link.

http://www.opusdei.org/

Essentially Opus Dei is an organization that directs members how to find God in their daily life. It shows how everyone's vocation is a calling and not just those who respond to the ordained or avowed life in service to Christ.

It is not a secretive organization hell bent on whatever Brown depicts in his books.
mamabearCali wrote:This will be a turbulent time for the Catholic Church. Prayers for the pope and those selecting the new pope.
God bless you and thank you for your prayers. Mamabear!

Anygunanywhere
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#25

Post by Texas Dan Mosby » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:17 pm

anygunanywhere wrote: Are you speaking specifically about the WHOLE Catholic Church?
Anygunanywhere
No, I'm not.

Bottom line: It's the leadership I have a problem with, not the practitioner....unless THEY too are turning a blind eye to abuse, and if so, I'd gladly make room on the gallows.
88 day wait for the state to approve my constitutional right to bear arms...

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#26

Post by Jasonw560 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:22 pm

Just throwing this out there.....There are the prophecies of St. Malachy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My people haven't had a dog in this hunt since October 31, 1519. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#27

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:23 pm

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote: Are you speaking specifically about the WHOLE Catholic Church?
Anygunanywhere
No, I'm not.

Bottom line: It's the leadership I have a problem with, not the practitioner....unless THEY too are turning a blind eye to abuse, and if so, I'd gladly make room on the gallows.
The Church is taking positive measures. There are dicoseses that need more scrutiny and still must face judge for wrongs.

I teach Confirmation 2 which consists of high school sophomores and juniors. I cannot describe to you the preparation and prevention we exercise each and every week, each and every encounter, to ensure that our children and young adults are protected. You wish that public schools were this careful.

I agree that it should not have been necessitated by the evil that was perpetrated on children. Tell me in sincerity, what has secular society done lately?

Anygunanywhere
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#28

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:27 pm

Jasonw560 wrote:Just throwing this out there.....There are the prophecies of St. Malachy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My people haven't had a dog in this hunt since October 31, 1519. :mrgreen:
There are many "prophecies" beyond Malachy's. The third secret of Lourdes dealt with the Pope.

I prefer to place my trust in others besides these.

We are not required to believe in these.

Anygunanywhere
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood


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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#29

Post by rwg3 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:31 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
rwg3 wrote:
Texas Dan Mosby wrote:That particular organization has protected and facilitated countless individuals, over the years, who have been responsible for conducting one of THE most heinous crimes imaginable against CHILDREN.

Using a position of trust to exploit children is straight up EVIL IMHO. However, knowing about it as a leader, and not prosecuting the offender, is even worse in my eyes.

I have NO patience with individuals that harm children, and fully believe those that abuse kids in a sexual nature should be hung by the neck until dead, be they priest, doctor, bricklayer alike.
+1

IMO It appears to be a smart political move with in the church political system. The cardinals all swear an oath of loyalty to the Pope when he is elected . When there is no Pope they are free to act and vote as their conscience dictates. By resigning before dying the current Pope can exert a fair amount of influence on the selection of his successor. The church has faced unprecedented criticism on a variety of issues and there is a political battle over maintaining a conservative bent or allowing a more liberal movement to occur. This Pope is of the conservative school and this helps insure the continuation of the conservative tradition.
I am not sure where you received your education on all matters Catholic and Vatican but you are way off.

It is not a political move. The Catholic Church is not a political organization run in a democratic manner. The only voting going on indeed will be the Cardinals selecting a new Pope. Their task is to select a successor to Pope Benedict.

The Cardinals swear no oath to obey the new Pope. Obedience to authority is a mark of a true Catholic and ordained clergy.

When there is no Pope the Cardinals are not free to act as their conscience dicateatres. Yes they can vote for whom they want, but there are actually very few Cardinals who would be voted on for Pope. The list is quite narrow.

The current Pope has a limited amount of influence. The Person with the most influence is the Holy Spirit.

The Church is not undergoing a political battle to maintain a conservative bent and avoid a liberal movement. The Church is both conservative and liberal if you use secular society's definitions. If you say that the Cardinals are going to try and prevent a "liberal" track that includes accepting abortion, contraception, and socalled same sex marriage then you are way off.

Your last sentence is nearly correct but remove the word conservative. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is tasked with preserving Sacred Tradition and Church Dogma which cannoty change.

Anygunanywhere
Suffice it to say we have different views on how the Catholic Church operates as an organized body. I believe your devotion is admirable and I would not want to offend inadvertently, so I will simply say I disagree with some of your views. The oath can be found in the OSV section on Cardinals. Like anything else done by humans the implementation of it may vary.
"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl-chain of all virtues", Thomas Fuller

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#30

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:34 pm

rwg3 wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
rwg3 wrote:
Texas Dan Mosby wrote:That particular organization has protected and facilitated countless individuals, over the years, who have been responsible for conducting one of THE most heinous crimes imaginable against CHILDREN.

Using a position of trust to exploit children is straight up EVIL IMHO. However, knowing about it as a leader, and not prosecuting the offender, is even worse in my eyes.

I have NO patience with individuals that harm children, and fully believe those that abuse kids in a sexual nature should be hung by the neck until dead, be they priest, doctor, bricklayer alike.
+1

IMO It appears to be a smart political move with in the church political system. The cardinals all swear an oath of loyalty to the Pope when he is elected . When there is no Pope they are free to act and vote as their conscience dictates. By resigning before dying the current Pope can exert a fair amount of influence on the selection of his successor. The church has faced unprecedented criticism on a variety of issues and there is a political battle over maintaining a conservative bent or allowing a more liberal movement to occur. This Pope is of the conservative school and this helps insure the continuation of the conservative tradition.
I am not sure where you received your education on all matters Catholic and Vatican but you are way off.

It is not a political move. The Catholic Church is not a political organization run in a democratic manner. The only voting going on indeed will be the Cardinals selecting a new Pope. Their task is to select a successor to Pope Benedict.

The Cardinals swear no oath to obey the new Pope. Obedience to authority is a mark of a true Catholic and ordained clergy.

When there is no Pope the Cardinals are not free to act as their conscience dicateatres. Yes they can vote for whom they want, but there are actually very few Cardinals who would be voted on for Pope. The list is quite narrow.

The current Pope has a limited amount of influence. The Person with the most influence is the Holy Spirit.

The Church is not undergoing a political battle to maintain a conservative bent and avoid a liberal movement. The Church is both conservative and liberal if you use secular society's definitions. If you say that the Cardinals are going to try and prevent a "liberal" track that includes accepting abortion, contraception, and socalled same sex marriage then you are way off.

Your last sentence is nearly correct but remove the word conservative. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is tasked with preserving Sacred Tradition and Church Dogma which cannoty change.

Anygunanywhere
Suffice it to say we have different views on how the Catholic Church operates as an organized body. I believe your devotion is admirable and I would not want to offend inadvertently, so I will simply say I disagree with some of your views. The oath can be found in the OSV section on Cardinals. Like anything else done by humans the implementation of it may vary.
No oath they can swear will override their covenants promised when they are ordained.

If you are referring to this:
I [name and surname], Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church, promise and swear to be faithful henceforth and forever, while I live, to Christ and his Gospel, being constantly obedient to the Holy Roman Apostolic Church, to Blessed Peter in the person of the Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, and of his canonically elected Successors; to maintain communion with the Catholic Church always, in word and deed; not to reveal to any one what is confided to me in secret, nor to divulge what may bring harm or dishonor to Holy Church; to carry out with great diligence and faithfulness those tasks to which I am called by my service to the Church, in accord with the norms of the law.
So help me Almighty God.
I can take that oath and it will mean exactly everything that it means to a cardinal.

There is nothing special there that does not apply to any Catholic. You can read into it whatever into it you want.

Anygunanywhere
Last edited by anygunanywhere on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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