Today in Trump's new term as President

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philip964
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3196

Post by philip964 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:48 pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... reme-court

Trump says he would challenge impeachment with Supreme Court. Probably wrong here, but kept his name in the news.

Regarding taxes. Usually you need evidence of a crime.
IRS can see them and hasn’t charged him with a crime, so I say no one will get to see them.

I would like to see Lee Harvey Oswald’s tax returns.

There is evidence of a crime. Notice how no ones released them even after all these years.


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3197

Post by Redneck_Buddha » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:52 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:31 pm
Concerning Trump’s taxes and the family taxes is there a law where they have to turn over their taxes or was it just a precedence?

If that is the case how in the world can you subpoena to see anyone’s taxes?
It's customary...like pardoning the White House turkey on Thanksgiving.


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3198

Post by srothstein » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:52 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:31 pm
Concerning Trump’s taxes and the family taxes is there a law where they have to turn over their taxes or was it just a precedence?

If that is the case how in the world can you subpoena to see anyone’s taxes?
It has recently been customary for candidates to make their returns public, though I have no idea why or what the benefit is. There is no law requiring it of any candidate.

There is a law making all tax returns to IRS confidential. Looking at IRS records, including returns, without authorization is a crime. The flaw is that the law was written by congress and they left a loophole in the law. It allows the committee to subpoena any tax records necessary so they can check if the IRS is performing its functions properly. It is part of the oversight function of congress. The committee making the request is claiming this law allows it.

As I understand it, the IRS has refused to comply because their interpretation of the law is slightly more restrictive. They believe there has to be some question of misbehavior on the IRS' part, not on the part of the taxpayer.
Steve Rothstein


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3199

Post by flechero » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:32 pm

Maybe congress would be ok if the IRS did a courtesy audit of all our elected officials, just to be sure all were acting responsibly! And someone like Muller (opposite party of course) walk through their history to see if they ever acted out of line... :tiphat:


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3200

Post by dcpendarvis » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:41 pm

srothstein wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:52 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:31 pm
Concerning Trump’s taxes and the family taxes is there a law where they have to turn over their taxes or was it just a precedence?

If that is the case how in the world can you subpoena to see anyone’s taxes?
It has recently been customary for candidates to make their returns public, though I have no idea why or what the benefit is. There is no law requiring it of any candidate.

There is a law making all tax returns to IRS confidential. Looking at IRS records, including returns, without authorization is a crime. The flaw is that the law was written by congress and they left a loophole in the law. It allows the committee to subpoena any tax records necessary so they can check if the IRS is performing its functions properly. It is part of the oversight function of congress. The committee making the request is claiming this law allows it.

As I understand it, the IRS has refused to comply because their interpretation of the law is slightly more restrictive. They believe there has to be some question of misbehavior on the IRS' part, not on the part of the taxpayer.
The relevant law (IRC 6103) has a number of provisions that allow various parties access to tax returns of others under certain circumstances. Section (f) provides that the Secretary of the Treasury shall provide tax returns to Congressional committees upon a request from the Chair of the committee. Interestingly the law is different for the House Ways and Means Committee (and Senate Finance Committee) than other Committees. Without going into boring detail, those Committees could make the requested returns part of the public record, whereas any other Committees cannot legally do so (assuming Trump does not consent to them being made public). That is why the charge is being led by Neal (Chairman of Ways and Means).

Because the law states that the Secretary "shall" provide the returns upon the request, there really isn't much room for discretion/interpretation. Treasury has not taken an official position, but has responded that they are considering the request. The position that they might take is that the Ways and Means Committee has no official business affected by the returns, and thus the request is not valid. That strikes me as an uphill battle - it would be fairly easy to come up with some form of business to make a colorable claim (Neal has already stated the request is for oversight of the presidential audit program run by the IRS).

Ultimately, if Treasury chooses to fight the request, my view is that they lose in the courts. The law is pretty clear that there is authority to request the returns. However, the game might be to drag it out - it probably would not be too challenging to extend the fight out past the 2020 election.

The other side of this is that I don't know why either side particularly cares. Tax returns, even those as complex as Trump's are likely to be, generally do not contain a whole lot of interesting information that would be useful to the public. Even if the Democrats are able to obtain the returns, they probably shouldn't count on any smoking guns.

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3201

Post by carlson1 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:12 pm

dcpendarvis wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:41 pm
srothstein wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:52 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:31 pm
Concerning Trump’s taxes and the family taxes is there a law where they have to turn over their taxes or was it just a precedence?

If that is the case how in the world can you subpoena to see anyone’s taxes?
It has recently been customary for candidates to make their returns public, though I have no idea why or what the benefit is. There is no law requiring it of any candidate.

There is a law making all tax returns to IRS confidential. Looking at IRS records, including returns, without authorization is a crime. The flaw is that the law was written by congress and they left a loophole in the law. It allows the committee to subpoena any tax records necessary so they can check if the IRS is performing its functions properly. It is part of the oversight function of congress. The committee making the request is claiming this law allows it.

As I understand it, the IRS has refused to comply because their interpretation of the law is slightly more restrictive. They believe there has to be some question of misbehavior on the IRS' part, not on the part of the taxpayer.
The relevant law (IRC 6103) has a number of provisions that allow various parties access to tax returns of others under certain circumstances. Section (f) provides that the Secretary of the Treasury shall provide tax returns to Congressional committees upon a request from the Chair of the committee. Interestingly the law is different for the House Ways and Means Committee (and Senate Finance Committee) than other Committees. Without going into boring detail, those Committees could make the requested returns part of the public record, whereas any other Committees cannot legally do so (assuming Trump does not consent to them being made public). That is why the charge is being led by Neal (Chairman of Ways and Means).

Because the law states that the Secretary "shall" provide the returns upon the request, there really isn't much room for discretion/interpretation. Treasury has not taken an official position, but has responded that they are considering the request. The position that they might take is that the Ways and Means Committee has no official business affected by the returns, and thus the request is not valid. That strikes me as an uphill battle - it would be fairly easy to come up with some form of business to make a colorable claim (Neal has already stated the request is for oversight of the presidential audit program run by the IRS).

Ultimately, if Treasury chooses to fight the request, my view is that they lose in the courts. The law is pretty clear that there is authority to request the returns. However, the game might be to drag it out - it probably would not be too challenging to extend the fight out past the 2020 election.

The other side of this is that I don't know why either side particularly cares. Tax returns, even those as complex as Trump's are likely to be, generally do not contain a whole lot of interesting information that would be useful to the public. Even if the Democrats are able to obtain the returns, they probably shouldn't count on any smoking guns.
Thank both of you for the explanation.
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TreyHouston
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3202

Post by TreyHouston » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:57 pm

But didn’t AOC tweet to the president, “this is not a request” :lol:
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3203

Post by ELB » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:08 pm

It doesnt matter what Trump’s tax returns actually say, it will matter only what the Dems tell the MSM to say about the tax returns. This is Coup Attempt 2.0.
USAF 1982-2005
____________
“The only thing more enjoyable than seeing your opponent lose an election they rigged is seeing them lose an investigation they rigged.” Author unknown but dead on the mark.

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3204

Post by mojo84 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:18 pm

Look at how they are spinning the the Mueller report. Can't imagine what all they would say if they saw his tax returns. There are a lot of legal tax deductions and loopholes available to commercial real estate investors. Not to mention it takes a team of accountants and tax attorneys to complete and understand the complicated tax laws for real estate investors like him. There is no way the dems or average person will understand them.
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3205

Post by philip964 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:46 pm

Crazy Uncle Joe opens a 8 point lead on Trump.

Will Obama be Vice President or Michelle?

Or will it be Beto?

Remember when Hillary was going to win?

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3206

Post by Pawpaw » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:20 am

Image
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

NRA Benefactor Life Member

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3207

Post by carlson1 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:58 am

Pawpaw wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:20 am
Image
Oh that is good!
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3208

Post by philip964 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:19 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/25/politics ... index.html

Rep. Connolly threatens to jail Trump officials who do not submit to subpoenas.

Funny thing as I understand it, the legislative branch has no jails or police. Guess who is in charge of those.

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3209

Post by mojo84 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:29 pm

It's about to get real interesting. The folks in the FBI, Obama and Clinton cabals are about to start feeling some real heat.
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#3210

Post by philip964 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:56 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/du ... ar-BBWjL4J

Trump speaking to NRA today.

He says he is scrapping the global small arms treaty.

For gun owners the choice could not be more clear in 2020.

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