If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance

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If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by thatguyoverthere » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:46 pm

Short topic title, maybe misleading. Let me explain.
An armed, veteran police officer stood idle for several minutes last October as the Las Vegas gunman slaughtered dozens of concertgoers from a perch one floor up
Regarding news released about a Las Vegas LEO who "froze up" during the mass murder out there. If LEOs can't or won't defend me, then please let me have the opportunity to at least try to defend myself. But I can't do that if I abide by the law and go unarmed in one of the several places where carry by LTC holders is prohibited.

Please do not misunderstand; I am not criticizing the LEO for his inaction. I might freeze up myself in trying to defend myself or a loved one some day - I hope I wouldn't freeze up, and I also hope to never have to find out. I believe no one knows for sure until that day comes.

The point I'm trying to make is simply that it seems to become even more clear to me every day that I cannot depend on someone else to protect me from violence. That being the case, we need to get the laws changed that prohibit LTCer's from carrying in places that are currently off-limits so we might have some chance at protecting ourselves (I'm talking about being prohibited by statute; 30.06 is another topic).

LTCer's as a group have shown themselves to be one of the most law-abiding group of people in the nation. The public has no reason to fear an armed person who has a license to carry a handgun in the state of Texas. It's time for Texas law to reflect that well documented fact.

Also another interesting tidbit from the same article: it's not likely to get better (LEO's "coming to the rescue") any time soon, based on these quotes from different college instructors:
"We teach officers to respond directly to the active killing. Every second that it continues to go on, more lives are at risk," J. Pete Blair, a criminal justice professor and director of the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training center at Texas State University, told the Associated Press. "But we don't expect them to take unnecessary risks."
And Eugene O'Donnell, a former New York City cop and now instructor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said “we have to be realistic. Police officers are civilians with guns,” he told the Associated Press. “The notion that they can spring into action and take on a mass murderer who is running up the body count is probably something you can't ask."
Again, I'm not criticizing. But if the evidence shows that I can't depend on a LEO to "rescue" me, and if the professional LEO trainers are saying outright that I shouldn't depend on a LEO to "rescue" me, then at least let me have some chance of "rescuing" myself!

I know people are working on getting those laws changed, even as I type this. And I truly appreciate those efforts. Consider this just a reminder that those changes in the law are sorely needed!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/03/la ... shows.html

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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by Middle Age Russ » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:53 pm

Whether we like it nor not, and whether we choose to accept it or not, in a moment of absolute need only we who are in that moment can be effective first responders, and only we who are in that moment have a reasonable chance to alter events in our favor.
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by RoyGBiv » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:25 pm

Remember that with the bump stock the dirtbag was using, it likely sounded and felt like full auto fire standing inside the hotel.... I'm having a hard time faulting a cop armed with a only a pistol from going against what I assume he believed to be full auto rifle fire...

There's "doing the job" and then there's "suicide with no hope for a good outcome".....

I agree 10000% with the notion that I should be able to defend myself whenever (hopefully never) the need arises.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by dlh » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:33 pm

Watching that video makes me sick to my stomach. That officer had no clue what to do.

Will be interesting to see how all of this plays out as more information trickles out over time.

More and more police officers have "patrol rifles" (think AR15s)--did he have one or just a "duty pistol?" In the hallway he does not appear to have a rifle. Did he leave one in his patrol car?

The game of ifs and buts will of course be played here. It is possible that if law enforcement had announced their presence that Pollard would have immediately committed suicide and more lives would have been saved. Or, he may have trained his rifle at the door and sprayed some more. Who knows?

In any event, I vote for police receiving more training to get better outcomes in these scenarios. Still thinking about the Broward County School Shootings....
Last edited by dlh on Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by WTR » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:52 pm

I found it interesting that the OP found an ex Police Officer that was willing to admit that Police Officers are just Civilians with guns. I have known a lot of POs in the past and that was definitely their opinion.

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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:28 am

I don't and never have expected the police to "protect" or "save" me. Expecting all police to run in the direction of fire is a little naive. Believing they should is a very different topic. All the training in the world will not give any human the strength of character it takes to be willing to make that ultimate sacrifice for someone they do not know. Any of you folks that have been in the military during a combat situation have very likely seen trained military persons freeze up and they receive training that far exceeds the police force.

Not everyone who joins the police do it out of a desire to help others. Just like not everybody that joins the military has a concern for protecting their country. Some just want a "cool" sounding job or the financial security of a Government job.

Maybe that is why they give medals and recognition to the ones that do. If all of them did it there would be no reason to give out special recognition.

My opinion based on my beliefs above is that I have a God given right to defend myself. I don't need anyone to allow me to do this and I sure don't expect anyone else will protect me either. If they do, well that is gravy on my tators. With my expectations in proper perspective, I am never disappointed. ;-)
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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by crazy2medic » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:35 am

I was taught in both EMT and Paramedic school that the drive to stay alive is the most hard wired drive of the human mind, that the most dangerous person to encounter was a suicidal individual, if they are willing to off themselves, taking you with them is no big deal to them!
With that being said, fighting to stay alive is hardwired in all of us, I ask the State to allow me to carry the means by which I can defend myself!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention

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Re: If Cops Won't, then Give Me a Chance


Post by BBYC » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:42 pm

Acevedo and his kind don't want commoners to have a chance.

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=88726&p=1149005&h ... o#p1149005
God, grant me serenity to accept the things I can't change
Courage to change the things I can
And the firepower to make a difference.

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