OC v. CC -- Hatfields v. McCoys All Over Again

[Keith B]

Thanks, Keith! You made my point.

If you're not part of the vocal 1%, you don't matter.

So, my point exactly is if you want something, speak up. Sitting on a forum and whining about not having something doesn't get you anywhere. The folks in 1776 didn't sit still, they rallied with those others who wanted their cause, got a spokesperson(s) who could speak for them as a whole and started moving forward on the Declaration of Independence. It still holds true today, if you want it, then go after it and make it known to those who can help make it happen if they get enough people behind them. Charles has said this all along, that if enough TSRA members speak up and want it, the TSRA will work with them.

[longtooth]

Excellent example in the Declaration of Independence.

Polite w/ verifiable facts.

They can both be achieved & must if there is to be a political answer.

[baldeagle]

And by the way, arming felons is just plain stupid. I would be in favor of reviewing the definitions of "violent" and "felon," but if someone did time for multiple armed robberies and then gets an early release for good behavior or overcrowding, arming that person is just all the way to the bone idiotic.

I don't think you understand how many "good people" are technically felons.

{{sigh}} I am sick and tired of this thread, but people keep writing things I simply cannot let pass.

There is no such thing as a "technical" felon. You are either a felon or you are not a felon. If the system convicts someone unfairly, you fix the system. You do not make allowances for the fact that the system is flawed by allowing felons to carry weapons simply because some of them may have been convicted unfairly. It is exactly this kind of flawed logic that has gotten our country into the mess it is in. When you see a problem, fix the problem. Don't try to make allowances for it by relaxing laws in other areas to compensate.

Tom Bean is not "technically" a felon. He broke the law. He was convicted. It was his responsibility to ensure that there was no ammo in his vehicle before crossing into Mexico. He delegated that responsibility to others and did not confirm that they had precisely carried out his instructions. If you think that he is being treated unfairly by the US government, then fight for changes that would restore his rights. But do not fight for felons to carry guns. That is the wrong way to go about it.

G. Gordon LIddy was convicted of conspiracy, illegal wiretapping and burglary. If you think a citizen should be able to have their 2A rights restored by appealing to a panel, court or commission and showing that they have earned the right to have their rights restored, then lobby for that change. But do not fight for felons to carry guns. That is the wrong way to go about it.

Your logic is the same that is used to demand that capital punishment be abolished, i.e. since the possibility exists that an innocent person could be put to death, we should abolish the death penalty. No, we should fix the flaws in our system that allow an innocent person to be convicted in the first place. Is it truly more fair to put an innocent person in prison for life than to put them to death?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Let me ask a hypothetical question. If there was an economically feasible and secure way to poll TSRA Members on the open-carry issue, would you still want TSRA to champion OC if the majority of the Members responding opposed OC?

What if the poll indicated an even split 50/50 for/against OC?

Here is an interesting question. If the majority of TSRA Members oppose OC, would you want TSRA to oppose an open-carry bill if one was introduced?

Charles...I will state my position and expectations of both the TSRA and the NRA. Hopefully, it will answer all three of your questions.

I believe both organizations should pursue any and every gun rights issue that strengthens, advances or solidifies the RKBA, if NOT to the detriment of existing law.

The questions you pose above concerning OC relate ONLY to what time-line this legislation should occur... not IF it should happen. (Caveat above applies).

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that both the TSRA and NRA should ignore the wishes of its members and pursue legislation they do not support and perhaps oppose. That would cost TSRA the trust and support of its Members. You say timing should be an issue, but my hypothetical questions deal with situations where the TSRA Membership has spoken.

Now...I have few questions for you, and I ask them with all due respect.

1. If there was an economically feasible and secure way to poll TSRA Members on the open-carry issue (or other high profile issue), would you support using that method to better establish the wants of the membership?

As I said earlier, we investigated online voting with the NRA and I know for certain it is not economically feasible, so it's hard for me to answer a hypothetical question I know could not happen.

Nevertheless, my answer to your question would be probably not, unless we could be assured of a response rate high enough to make legislative agenda decisions. I don't think we would get even a respectable percentage of TSRA Members to respond. We have almost 8,000 members here on TexasCHLforum and we have less than 100 votes on all but one of the polls I posted. If we can only get 1.3% of this group to respond, and I suspect our members are far more interested in "carry" issues, then there's no reason to think we would get a response large enough to determine what the membership body as a whole wants. If TSRA has about 38,000 members and only 494 respond to the poll, do you think it would be appropriate to act on that minuscule input?

Additionally, I see no reason to try to force Members to communicate with us on the open-carry issue. (They contact us on other issues.) If TSRA Members want OC, then send an email, pick the phone, or send a letter. That's where OC supporters are running into trouble. For two years you have been trying to rally the OC troops and get them to join TSRA and make there voices heard. Some on OCDO are simply telling folks to call TSRA whether or not they are members. But in spite of all the calls to action, virtually no one from the OC camp is calling! This is very telling -- OC just doesn't have any significant support.

2. Has the TSRA ever conducted a poll, questionnaire or study (soliciting the entire membership) AND actually recorded the results?

Not to my knowledge and I've been active with TSRA on legislative matters for 25 years. We haven't because direct mail is far too costly and there is no secure online method without spending a lot of money on custom programming. Even then there are risks.

3. Can you point me to an instance where a significant number (25%) of the membership has ever expressed opposition to an issue being considered by the TSRA or discussed?

I don't know what you are asking. However, your hypothetical question would amout to almost 10,000 people and I've never spoken to 10,000 TSRA Members in one session. That said, as I mentioned in another post, my rough estimate of the support and opposition to open-carry by the people I have spoken to was 60% opposed and 40% in favor and those numbers were very generous to OC supporters. Even using the 60/40 split, that's 1) a 20% difference; 2) with OC opponents in the majority.

Chas.

[Mike1951]

Thanks, Keith! You made my point.

If you're not part of the vocal 1%, you don't matter.

So, my point exactly is if you want something, speak up. Sitting on a forum and whining about not having something doesn't get you anywhere. The folks in 1776 didn't sit still, they rallied with those others who wanted their cause, got a spokesperson(s) who could speak for them as a whole and started moving forward on the Declaration of Independence. It still holds true today, if you want it, then go after it and make it known to those who can help make it happen if they get enough people behind them. Charles has said this all along, that if enough TSRA members speak up and want it, the TSRA will work with them.

As I stated in my original post, I am against open carry. What would you have me say when I called them? Thank you for doing nothing?

It is the arrogance to think the TSRA has no obligation to actively solicit the wishes of its membership that bothers me.

We receive numerous polls from the NRA, always accompanied by donation solicitations. So if the TSRA used this method, it is conceivable that a significant portion of the cost would be offset by contributions. Would it be possible to sneak a few Texas related questions on one or more of the NRA polls?

No one has commented on my suggestion to include the poll in the TSRA magazine. That completely eliminates the cost of distribution. The only cost would be paying to print the poll and have it inserted in the magazine.

But any attempt at all by TSRA would help to assuage my concerns that they consider such an approach unnecessary because they have already decided what is best for us.

I find it ludicrous that you and others think members' opinions and wishes are irrelevent if they choose not to speak to Alice Tripp. But it is pleasureable to envision 38,000 members ringing Alice Tripp's phone at once and continously to the extent that she has no time for anything else. Would it take something this extreme to change the thinking of TSRA's leadership?

I would not have joined as a Life Member if I didn't want to support the TSRA. Since '95, I have not disagreed with the TSRA's actions to improve conditions pertaining to concealed carry. Assuming campus carry and a good parking lot bill pass this session, what major goals remain? How will they decide what to pursue next? If your answer remains by listening to the 1% that call directly, then something is very, very wrong.

[flintknapper]

Thanks, Keith! You made my point.

If you're not part of the vocal 1%, you don't matter.

So, my point exactly is if you want something, speak up. Sitting on a forum and whining about not having something doesn't get you anywhere. The folks in 1776 didn't sit still, they rallied with those others who wanted their cause, got a spokesperson(s) who could speak for them as a whole and started moving forward on the Declaration of Independence. It still holds true today, if you want it, then go after it and make it known to those who can help make it happen if they get enough people behind them. Charles has said this all along, that if enough TSRA members speak up and want it, the TSRA will work with them.

As I stated in my original post, I am against open carry. What would you have me say when I called them? Thank you for doing nothing?

It is the arrogance to think the TSRA has no obligation to actively solicit the wishes of its membership that bothers me.

We receive numerous polls from the NRA, always accompanied by donation solicitations. So if the TSRA used this method, it is conceivable that a significant portion of the cost would be offset by contributions. Would it be possible to sneak a few Texas related questions on one or more of the NRA polls?

No one has commented on my suggestion to include the poll in the TSRA magazine. That completely eliminates the cost of distribution. The only cost would be paying to print the poll and have it inserted in the magazine.

But any attempt at all by TSRA would help to assuage my concerns that they consider such an approach unnecessary because they have already decided what is best for us.

I find it ludicrous that you and others think members' opinions and wishes are irrelevent if they choose not to speak to Alice Tripp. But it is pleasureable to envision 38,000 members ringing Alice Tripp's phone at once and continously to the extent that she has no time for anything else. Would it take something this extreme to change the thinking of TSRA's leadership?

I would not have joined as a Life Member if I didn't want to support the TSRA. Since '95, I have not disagreed with the TSRA's actions to improve conditions pertaining to concealed carry. Assuming campus carry and a good parking lot bill pass this session, what major goals remain? How will they decide what to pursue next? If your answer remains by listening to the 1% that call directly, then something is very, very wrong.

Well...I am happy to see that at least one other person gets it. (particularly the highlighted)

"It" being defined as a desire to improve current processes especially where high profile issues (or the inevitability of such) exist.

[Keith B]

Thanks, Keith! You made my point.

If you're not part of the vocal 1%, you don't matter.

So, my point exactly is if you want something, speak up. Sitting on a forum and whining about not having something doesn't get you anywhere. The folks in 1776 didn't sit still, they rallied with those others who wanted their cause, got a spokesperson(s) who could speak for them as a whole and started moving forward on the Declaration of Independence. It still holds true today, if you want it, then go after it and make it known to those who can help make it happen if they get enough people behind them. Charles has said this all along, that if enough TSRA members speak up and want it, the TSRA will work with them.

As I stated in my original post, I am against open carry. What would you have me say when I called them? Thank you for doing nothing?

I missed that fact, but whether it is Open Carry or other items you feel strongly about, if you want them to know you support it and as a TSRA member you would like them to support it also.

It is the arrogance to think the TSRA has no obligation to actively solicit the wishes of its membership that bothers me.

We receive numerous polls from the NRA, always accompanied by donation solicitations. So if the TSRA used this method, it is conceivable that a significant portion of the cost would be offset by contributions. Would it be possible to sneak a few Texas related questions on one or more of the NRA polls?

There is a major difference in volume of NRA members and the cost savings per member that accompany the large volume of membership when printing, increased circulation advertising support, etc. I personally don't know the breakdown, but can assume they would be fairly substantial overall and help offset costs. Personally I don't like the solicitations, even in the form of a poll, so would prefer to be proactive vs. reactive on items that interest me and have them use the money on something more worthwhile.

No one has commented on my suggestion to include the poll in the TSRA magazine. That completely eliminates the cost of distribution. The only cost would be paying to print the poll and have it inserted in the magazine.

There are additional costs of collecting the information, compiling it into a database, analyzing it, etc. While some of these costs would be incurred on a solicited poll or information pro-actively fed to the TSRA, there the volumes will always be smaller on proactive because there are those that will not call. There is also the wasted cost printing the poll for that percentage of members who don't really care or don't want to take the time to complete the poll or spend the postage to mail it back.

But any attempt at all by TSRA would help to assuage my concerns that they consider such an approach unnecessary because they have already decided what is best for us.

Well, unless you and the other 98.999% tell them what it important to you, then they just have to guess from the 1% that do speak up on what matters.

I find it ludicrous that you and others think members' opinions and wishes are irrelevant if they choose not to speak to Alice Tripp. But it is pleasureable to envision 38,000 members ringing Alice Tripp's phone at once and continously to the extent that she has no time for anything else. Would it take something this extreme to change the thinking of TSRA's leadership?

I only used Alice's name as the pieces that I spoke to her on pending legislation when I was at a meetings where she was in attendance and making a presentation to membership on what the TSRA PAC were working on. These and other matters can be emailed or called just to TSRA Headquarters, and you don't have to speak directly to her. No different than calling a state Representative or Congressman's office, speaking to their staff and expressing your support or dislike of a bill or proposed law. Very rarely will you talk to the legislator directly anyway, so for you to think that we feel you have to talk directly to Alice is ludicrous.

I would not have joined as a Life Member if I didn't want to support the TSRA. Since '95, I have not disagreed with the TSRA's actions to improve conditions pertaining to concealed carry. Assuming campus carry and a good parking lot bill pass this session, what major goals remain? How will they decide what to pursue next? If your answer remains by listening to the 1% that call directly, then something is very, very wrong.

Then make it more than 1% by sending an email or making a phone call. Out of all of the typing you have done in these posts, you could have expressed a lot of information on what you would like them to be doing in email.

[shootthesheet]

The NRA and TSRA are going to lose support if they do not move to pass Constitutional Carry and remove restrictions on CHL. I have seen nothing but fear-mongering and excuses.

Those of the "Rights Now" crowd need to learn how to sell their issue to the people and stop beating people over the head with it. They need to forget the NRA and TSRA establishment and take it to the people. I have seen little from them the last few years other than complaining.

It seems two years have been wasted and the people lose again.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The NRA and TSRA are going to lose support if they do not move to pass Constitutional Carry and remove restrictions on CHL. I have seen nothing but fear-mongering and excuses.

Those of the "Rights Now" crowd need to learn how to sell their issue to the people and stop beating people over the head with it. They need to forget the NRA and TSRA establishment and take it to the people. I have seen little from them the last few years other than complaining.

It seems two years have been wasted and the people lose again.

I'm lost. Are yo saying you "have seen little from" who in "the last few years other than complaining."

Chas.

[G.A. Heath]

To those who think the NRA and TSRA is not doing what they need to do, please answer/consider the following:
Are you a member? If not then shut up or join.
If so have you expressed your concerns and let them know what you want? If not the quit complaining, or start letting them know what your concerns are.

If you're not a member, or haven't advised them what legislation you want to see then you have no right to complain. I'm getting tired of folks who think the organizations I pay to join should do what they want when they have not contributed by joining or spoken up. Those who are not members at all are just dead weight, and do not deserve a seat at the table.

My memberships include both the TSRA and NRA, among others. If you are not a member of the group you want to take action then what is wrong with the picture?

[flintknapper]

Thanks, Keith! You made my point.

If you're not part of the vocal 1%, you don't matter.

So, my point exactly is if you want something, speak up. Sitting on a forum and whining about not having something doesn't get you anywhere. The folks in 1776 didn't sit still, they rallied with those others who wanted their cause, got a spokesperson(s) who could speak for them as a whole and started moving forward on the Declaration of Independence. It still holds true today, if you want it, then go after it and make it known to those who can help make it happen if they get enough people behind them. Charles has said this all along, that if enough TSRA members speak up and want it, the TSRA will work with them.

As I stated in my original post, I am against open carry. What would you have me say when I called them? Thank you for doing nothing?

I missed that fact, but whether it is Open Carry or other items you feel strongly about, if you want them to know you support it and as a TSRA member you would like them to support it also.
^^^^^I'm not sure I understand the requirement to be a TSRA member before support is recognized. Someone please explain that to me. There might be many gun owners across the State in support of different issues, but apparently TSRA recognizes ONLY that of those whom are members? For real?

Does the TSRA not understand that the opinion of the general public is equally valuable as a barometer on any issue.

It is the arrogance to think the TSRA has no obligation to actively solicit the wishes of its membership that bothers me.

We receive numerous polls from the NRA, always accompanied by donation solicitations. So if the TSRA used this method, it is conceivable that a significant portion of the cost would be offset by contributions. Would it be possible to sneak a few Texas related questions on one or more of the NRA polls?

There is a major difference in volume of NRA members and the cost savings per member that accompany the large volume of membership when printing, increased circulation advertising support, etc. I personally don't know the breakdown, but can assume they would be fairly substantial overall and help offset costs. Personally I don't like the solicitations, even in the form of a poll, so would prefer to be proactive vs. reactive on items that interest me and have them use the money on something more worthwhile.
^^^^^Yes, the TSRA does not have the type of funding that the NRA does, we all understand that. This does not mean that contacting the membership is an impossibility though. It just means plans to fund it must be made, the membership solicited and informed. Most of this could be done in one short article in the publication (which must be mailed anyway). Its guaranteed to get a huge response....once the readership is made aware of the concerns of both sides. I am dead certain the TSRA would not be looking forward to the influx of calls and emails it would generate...and they probably don't want to do it for this reason alone.

No one has commented on my suggestion to include the poll in the TSRA magazine. That completely eliminates the cost of distribution. The only cost would be paying to print the poll and have it inserted in the magazine.

There are additional costs of collecting the information, compiling it into a database, analyzing it, etc. While some of these costs would be incurred on a solicited poll or information pro-actively fed to the TSRA, there the volumes will always be smaller on proactive because there are those that will not call. There is also the wasted cost printing the poll for that percentage of members who don't really care or don't want to take the time to complete the poll or spend the postage to mail it back.

But any attempt at all by TSRA would help to assuage my concerns that they consider such an approach unnecessary because they have already decided what is best for us.

Well, unless you and the other 98.999% tell them what it important to you, then they just have to guess from the 1% that do speak up on what matters.
^^^^^Well...that really sounds like a solution. As with any organization of this type, quite a few members are not really "engaged" and never will be, at least if not prodded or solicited. Most feel that the organization they support is already acting on their behalf and in their best interest.

Many would be surprised to know that a small (and I do mean small) percentage of the membership is steering the ship. This might be fine (and economically expedient) for many issues, BUT once in a while something comes down the pike....worthy of more study. If the TSRA is serious about their mission statement, then the responsibility to "get it right" is incumbent upon them.

They would do well to remember...that the legislative successes they have affect every person in Texas (ALL are bound by the law), NOT just TSRA members. That is why public opinion should weigh heavily with them as well. I believe the leadership does have a "pulse" for what the public wants, but I am discouraged to find out that it is policy at TSRA to just let a speck of the membership determine what gets attention....when they know a broader look into it... would yield more accurate results.

[flintknapper]

To those who think the NRA and TSRA is not doing what they need to do, please answer/consider the following:
Are you a member? If not then shut up or join.
If so have you expressed your concerns and let them know what you want? If not the quit complaining, or start letting them know what your concerns are.

If you're not a member, or haven't advised them what legislation you want to see then you have no right to complain. I'm getting tired of folks who think the organizations I pay to join should do what they want when they have not contributed by joining or spoken up. Those who are not members at all are just dead weight, and do not deserve a seat at the table.

My memberships include both the TSRA and NRA, among others. If you are not a member of the group you want to take action then what is wrong with the picture?

Wow!

I'm not going to dissect this one...but rather make a general appeal to you in hopes of changing your outlook.

Simply put: The TSRA is NOT some small private club with an elite membership making rules that affect ONLY it's membership, understand?

The TSRA is literally the gatekeeper for pro-gun legislation in Texas (the only game in town). As such... any success they have... becomes Texas Law which is binding upon every citizen of the State. And your answer to the concerns of the public is sit down and shut up?

Are you a member of Congress per chance? If not...then they will want you to join "or shut up" before they will hear your concerns or consider your vote. I can go on....but hopefully the point has been made.

Now...If I didn't think the TSRA and NRA were generally doing a good job and getting results for gun owners/RKBA....I wouldn't support them (but I do). I am only suggesting there might be better ways to do certain things concerning certain issues. I don't know why that should ruffle anyone's feathers..unless they think they are doing a perfect job.

In the course of these discussions...I must admit I am learning some things about the TSRA (and how it operates)....that I didn't know. Most of it good.

Flint.

[G.A. Heath]

To those who think the NRA and TSRA is not doing what they need to do, please answer/consider the following:
Are you a member? If not then shut up or join.
If so have you expressed your concerns and let them know what you want? If not the quit complaining, or start letting them know what your concerns are.

If you're not a member, or haven't advised them what legislation you want to see then you have no right to complain. I'm getting tired of folks who think the organizations I pay to join should do what they want when they have not contributed by joining or spoken up. Those who are not members at all are just dead weight, and do not deserve a seat at the table.

My memberships include both the TSRA and NRA, among others. If you are not a member of the group you want to take action then what is wrong with the picture?

Wow!

I'm not going to dissect this one...but rather make a general appeal to you in hopes of changing your outlook.

Simply put: The TSRA is NOT some small private club with an elite membership making rules that affect ONLY it's membership, understand?

The TSRA is literally the gatekeeper for pro-gun legislation in Texas (the only game in town). As such... any success they have... becomes Texas Law which is binding upon every citizen of the State. And your answer to the concerns of the public is sit down and shut up?

Are you a member of Congress per chance? If not...then they will want you to join "or shut up" before they will hear your concerns or consider your vote. I can go on....but hopefully the point has been made.

Now...If I didn't think the TSRA and NRA were generally doing a good job and getting results for gun owners/RKBA....I wouldn't support them (but I do). I am only suggesting there might be better ways to do certain things concerning certain issues. I don't know why that should ruffle anyone's feathers..unless they think they are doing a perfect job.

In the course of these discussions...I must admit I am learning some things about the TSRA (and how it operates)....that I didn't know. Most of it good.

Flint.

Private club: No.
But who do they answer to? Their members who paid to join.
As for Congress: no I'm not a member, but who do they answer to the public which I am a member of and I do pay for them so they better listen to what the people say or things will change (look at the last election).

What I'm saying is if your not a member of the TSRA or the NRA they do not answer to you, nor will they answer to you, so either shut up or join. My feelings are that if you have done nothing then you have no right to complain when things don't go your way. Because standing their screaming out about how an organization is ignoring what you want when that organization does not answer to you is wasteful so your better off saving your energy or joining.

and flintknapper: if your not a member of the TSRA I will pay for you to receive a 1 year membership so you can have a real reason complain when they don't listen to you.

[Purplehood]

It is my belief that if a mere 1% of the NRA and/or the TSRA were the actual driving-force behind what those organizations support and what they do not, than the remaining 99% wouldn't have hung on to their memberships for the past century. They would have left an organization that they felt did not represent them.
I don't buy the theory that they are not truly representative of what the memberships wishes.

Open carry is currently on the back-burner for my "wish-list". Once the bills for Campus carry and Employee parking lot have passed I will then refocus my attention on whatever else needs to be done to get back to "Constitutional carry". But for now, I ain't ready yet. And to be honest, I have no pending sense of alarm about it.

[flintknapper]

G.A. Heath wrote:

Private club: No.
But who do they answer to? Their members who paid to join.

And membership should rightly afford those persons exclusive rights as pertains to electing the leadership of the organization and other matters that affect ONLY the membership or public entities that agrees to the same.

Under those conditions….they rightfully “answer” only to members.
In areas such as lobbying and legislation, the efforts of the TSRA have the potential to affect ALL citizens of the State (read the public) and any responsible organization would want to look at all input (even solicit it) in order to make the best decision(s).

As for Congress: no I'm not a member, but who do they answer to the public which I am a member of and I do pay for them so they better listen to what the people say or things will change (look at the last election).

Excuse me……..? You DON’T pay for Congress to listen to you. You pay taxes to support a governmental system necessary to run some aspects of the country.

Elected officials are put in place (or not) by your VOTE. You didn’t PAY for your right to vote! It is a right guaranteed to every American Citizen who meets certain eligibility requirements.

You didn’t PAY to be a “member” of the public, you were BORN into it.

Your purchasing power with respect to the government is your VOTE. The reason elected officials answer to the public is because the decisions they make, the policies put in place and the laws enacted….affect everyone (the public at some level…local, state, federal). See a parallel here?

What I'm saying is if your not a member of the TSRA or the NRA they do not answer to you, nor will they answer to you, so either shut up or join. My feelings are that if you have done nothing then you have no right to complain when things don't go your way.

Yes, you have made your opinion abundantly clear. I don’t know that this is the same position/policy of the TSRA, but I will contact Alice Tripp today and find out. I will direct her to this thread, so she will be privy to all discussion and see what she has to say. I have contacted her in the past (not on issues anything like this) and she has always been faithful to reply.

Because standing their screaming out about how an organization is ignoring what you want when that organization does not answer to you is wasteful so your better off saving your energy or joining.

I believe in matters of legislation….the TSRA should make every effort to listen to and consider the concerns of any citizen of this State.

Maybe they already do, maybe not. It may be…that they politely take phone calls from non-members and then dismiss them. Mailed in letters might be read and then deposited in the “circular file (if determined it didn’t come from a member).

If the opinions and concerns of the public (all affected by TSRA’s efforts) are only considered valid if “paid for” by membership, then I want Alice to state that.

IF that is the case….then Stop the Train, because Flint is getting off. This thing is NOT at all going where I thought it was.

and flintknapper: if your not a member of the TSRA I will pay for you to receive a 1 year membership so you can have a real reason complain when they don't listen to you.

I appreciate the offer….but make good on it with someone else here that would like to support the TSRA, that will help us out all. I am already a member, also with the NRA and several other sporting organizations.

I contribute to the NRA and TSRA not only through membership dues, but with other monetary contributions.

I am the card carrying, sticker on truck, magnet on refrigerator, “Squeaky Wheel”, O.K.?
My wife hates this:


BUT, my allegiance is not a blind one….and it will cease altogether if I find out what you purport…is true.

Regards,

Flint.