TexasCHLforum.com

rotor wrote:What would WalMart do if someone came in with open carry and no LTC? Call the police? Eventually it will happen.

Seems to me you could ask for it at the check out just like they card to see if you of age. No LTC no beer simple as that.

Here is an item in today's "The Dallas Morning News" page 5A:

"... To comply with state liquor rules, the world's biggest retailer sent a written notice last month to stores that sell alcohol, telling managers to ensure that customers who openly carry firearms under a new law have licenses. ...Wal-Mart spokesman, Brian Nick, said, "We are giving directions to our store employees to ask for a license as our management sees appropriate."
...An establishment can lose its liquor license if it "knowingly allows" a person to bring an in illegal firearm of the premises , said Chris Porter, TABC spokesman. ...

it seems to me that Wal-Mart is exercising due diligence. Given that only about 4 percent of Texas have a LTC, and that only a small percentage of those with licenses intend to carry openly, I predict this will not be a problem. However, if one approaches the door openly carrying a handgun and a chip on one's shoulder, it will be what it will be.

Abraham wrote:AJSully421,

Thanks!

I stand corrected.

What I posted came from a forum member who stated his nephew is a WM mgr. and his nephew stated they'd only be asking for an LTC is the OCer was not acting normal.

Now, I wonder if WM mgmt. has decided in all their stores to make the greeters automatically check for LTC if one OC's.

Given your experience, I guess one might or might not be asked for LTC if OCing.

It wouldn't bother me. I'd proudly whip it out.

I feel sympathy for the poor greeter having to do this as I suspect not everyone will be polite and kind about it and a whole lot of greeters are elderly and/or handicapped.

I posted about my nephew. The document he was issued did not authorize greeters to card at the door. I know he is not doing this in his store. Maybe some stores are interpreting it differently.

I would think the liability of possibly exposing some yahoo who is illegally carrying and armed by the unarmed possibly elderly greeter would be an unwise position for wm to take.

Judging from some of the acrimonious and sometimes combative posts of late, I would not mind if every OC got asked to show his/her license. You never know otherwise, eh?

Oldgringo wrote:Judging from some of the acrimonious and sometimes combative posts of late, I would not mind if every OC got asked to show his/her license. You never know otherwise, eh?

my answer is no you can't see it, if I have to leave so be it but your not seeing anything you don't have a legal right or requirement to see so (explative)

Swoops1 wrote:

rotor wrote:What would WalMart do if someone came in with open carry and no LTC? Call the police? Eventually it will happen.

Seems to me you could ask for it at the check out just like they card to see if you of age. No LTC no beer simple as that.

The problem is it's against TABC code for them to have anyone on their property carrying without a license. This has nothing to do with purchase.

GhostTX wrote:I don't know the licensee aspect of the TABC laws, but to me, the blue sign put the burden on the weapon carrier, not the store:
"It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law."
"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000."

Is this Walmart legal misinterpreting something?

Maybe Keith's explanation in this thread will help clear it up for you.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=81579

JP171 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Judging from some of the acrimonious and sometimes combative posts of late, I would not mind if every OC got asked to show his/her license. You never know otherwise, eh?

my answer is no you can't see it, if I have to leave so be it but your not seeing anything you don't have a legal right or requirement to see so (explative)

I rest my case, thank you.

Lena wrote:which stores have the AR 15's ?

I've seen one in at least two, but it's been a little while. One at 80 and Belt Line and another one in Lindale. Just about any Walmart that still sells rifles will probably have one.

how long has that been? you may wish to recheck that, I was told all were removed

I guess I will crawl out of my "lurkdom" and throw my 2 cents in the mix.

Now, the likely hood of this happening to me are pretty non existent as 1) I do my best not to shop at Walmart due to personal reasons, and 2) I see myself rarely, if ever, OCing, but IF the stars were to align and those two unlikely events were to coincide, I would calmly and respectfully decline to show my LTC to anyone other than a LEO. Notice, I said RESPECTFULLY. I wouldnt get belligerent, make a scene, huff and puff...nothing. I would just politely say, "sorry, not trying to be a troublemaker, but, no. Would you like me to leave, cover up, or what" Or something along those lines. Doesnt matter if if is walmart, some local mom and pop place, same difference. I am not going to show my LTC to some "civilian" just because they ask for it. I very much respect the property rights of business owners, I have a small business myself, and am totally fine with them asking me to leave. I agree it is their house, their rules. walmart doesnt have anything that I have to have and/or cant get someplace else.

I'm not buying the TABC angle. However, I am not a lawyer, so maybe there is more to it. To me, the term "unknowingly..." seems like enough of a CYA, because after all, the law states that only those with a CHL/LTC are allowed to OC, so therefore "innocent until proven guilty" no? Is a person with an unlicensed firearm going to turn themselves in after they buy a six pack and some slim jims? Wasnt that the big dustup all about when getting the law passed? "We" didnt want to have to "show our papers" to LEO when doing nothing more than minding our own business with an openly carried firearm? Either way, I dont see it the job of the door greeter or manager on duty to determine if some one is legal or not. What are they going to do once I am "cleared" put a little pink sticker on the grip of my pistol? If walmart is THAT concerned with loosing their TABC lic, they should just put up a 30.07 sign, or have a LEO at the door.

I'm conflicted for sure and I've gone around and around in my mind about it. I understand and agree with being a good ambassador for CC/OC and I commend those who have said they will not make an issue out of it and I am not planning to either. As I said, the chances of me being in that kind of situation are slim to none. Really, more of a theoretical discussion. I do agree that OCT did more harm than good for our cause. I also predict that in 6 months, walmart (and others) will get tired of checking lic and it will become no big deal.

Sorry to throw an an opposing (and prob unpopular) opinion out there, but AT THIS TIME, those are my 2 cents. Maybe I'll be swayed back to the light side lol

That was worth more than two cents. Great thoughts and great post.

CCreyeder,

Your post is quite reasonable.

And, I do understand how galling (for some) it would be for a non-LE type requesting to see your LTC.

I think your response is another thoughtful way of handling such a request.

Me, I'd just show it and move on, but I respect your perspective too.

JP171 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Judging from some of the acrimonious and sometimes combative posts of late, I would not mind if every OC got asked to show his/her license. You never know otherwise, eh?

my answer is no you can't see it, if I have to leave so be it but your not seeing anything you don't have a legal right or requirement to see so (explative)

You sir, are why there's an increased number of 30.06 signs appearing.
Why can't you just be happy you can now open carry?

CCreyeder wrote:I guess I will crawl out of my "lurkdom" and throw my 2 cents in the mix.

Now, the likely hood of this happening to me are pretty non existent as 1) I do my best not to shop at Walmart due to personal reasons, and 2) I see myself rarely, if ever, OCing, but IF the stars were to align and those two unlikely events were to coincide, I would calmly and respectfully decline to show my LTC to anyone other than a LEO. Notice, I said RESPECTFULLY. I wouldnt get belligerent, make a scene, huff and puff...nothing. I would just politely say, "sorry, not trying to be a troublemaker, but, no. Would you like me to leave, cover up, or what" Or something along those lines. Doesnt matter if if is walmart, some local mom and pop place, same difference. I am not going to show my LTC to some "civilian" just because they ask for it. I very much respect the property rights of business owners, I have a small business myself, and am totally fine with them asking me to leave. I agree it is their house, their rules. walmart doesnt have anything that I have to have and/or cant get someplace else.

I'm not buying the TABC angle. However, I am not a lawyer, so maybe there is more to it. To me, the term "unknowingly..." seems like enough of a CYA, because after all, the law states that only those with a CHL/LTC are allowed to OC, so therefore "innocent until proven guilty" no? Is a person with an unlicensed firearm going to turn themselves in after they buy a six pack and some slim jims? Wasnt that the big dustup all about when getting the law passed? "We" didnt want to have to "show our papers" to LEO when doing nothing more than minding our own business with an openly carried firearm? Either way, I dont see it the job of the door greeter or manager on duty to determine if some one is legal or not. What are they going to do once I am "cleared" put a little pink sticker on the grip of my pistol? If walmart is THAT concerned with loosing their TABC lic, they should just put up a 30.07 sign, or have a LEO at the door.

I'm conflicted for sure and I've gone around and around in my mind about it. I understand and agree with being a good ambassador for CC/OC and I commend those who have said they will not make an issue out of it and I am not planning to either. As I said, the chances of me being in that kind of situation are slim to none. Really, more of a theoretical discussion. I do agree that OCT did more harm than good for our cause. I also predict that in 6 months, walmart (and others) will get tired of checking lic and it will become no big deal.

Sorry to throw an an opposing (and prob unpopular) opinion out there, but AT THIS TIME, those are my 2 cents. Maybe I'll be swayed back to the light side lol

Apparently you missed the quote from Wal-Mart corporate and TABC.