mamabearCali wrote:speedsix wrote:...I really hope that following strangers in our area who are acting strangely doesn't become the norm for the average citizen...then our police wouldn't have much to do...and besides, sometime it provokes serious problems...
Perhaps that is the problem. We are so busy minding our own business we have forgotten how to be neighbors and how to look out for one another. Zimmerman whatever his faults was known for being a good neighbor and watching out for others.
[looking out for one another is reporting a suspicious person...not setting out to follow and chase him, provoking an incident like this...being a good neighbor is letting the police do the following and chasing...especially when you have no evidence that a crime has even been committed]
speedsix wrote:
...he DID act against the rules of the NW group...and I've posted the rules several times...they don't say(at least in their official handbook) not to "confront someone physically"...maybe you can show us where you got that...but they DO say:
" What you will
not do is get physically involved with
any activity you report or
apprehension of any suspicious
persons. This is the job of the law
enforcement agency."
...kinda clear and to the point, isn't it...when you bother to read it...and getting out of your vehicle and following someone down the street and running after them is clearly getting physically involved with activity you report...and going about your business means you're NOT going about the police's business(see above)...
You have an interesting definition of what getting physically involved is. Most people would think that would include bodily contact or at least verbal contact (We know Zimmerman had none of which until Martin doubled back to confront him). I would not call getting out of your car to see which way a person goes "physically invovled." Tactically unwise, certainly, but only because it opens you up to attack. It does not precipitate the attack. Now Zimmerman most certainly was physically involved. However once someone is banging another persons head on the ground all "rules" from NW are out the window.
[how can you say what "most people" would think something means? the words used in the handbook mean what they say...if they'd only meant what you think they meant...they would have used those words...and you're minimizing what he did...he didn't just get out of his car...he followed and chased his suspect...or the attack you jump to would not have happened...if he'd followed the NW rule...the attack couldn't have happened...he wouldn't have been there...he would have been gone or sitting in the locked vehicle waiting for the police...safe as a bug in a rug...and look what happened when an untrained, unauthorized wannabe followed a suspect...he got jumped...because he was out doing something the police should have been doing...]
speedsix wrote:
...no exxageration on my part...but when you can post things like"
"There is absolutely nothing I've seen anywhere that indicates that Zimmerman "chased" Martin. Do you have some information you can share?"
...then it's clear to me that you either haven't listened to Z's 911 tape or read the prosecutor's affidavit(I guess she doesn't like the word chase either, she used the word "persuing"...or you're in denial because they say something you don't want them to...both have been posted numerous times...but instead of getting the substance of what's being said, you prefer to pick and choose words and phrases to attack...ignoring the obvious meaning...kinda like putting your hands over your eyes and saying "I can't SEE you"...
...having one's own opinion is a good thing...ignoring the facts...not so much...
We all see things as we want to. You included. I don't see going over to see where someone is headed as chasing (you have to want to catch them to be chasing IMO). We know Zimmerman did not want to "catch" Martin. He wanted the police to catch him.
[...he didn't just "go over to see where someone is headed"...he followed TM...enough to alarm and upset him...and "wanting to catch them" is only one definition of chasing...running after and pursuing is also...and has nothing to do with wanting to catch...I didn't say a word about him wanting to catch him...]
You are ignoring some facts too. You are ignoring the fact that the 911 operator asked Zimmerman if he could see which way Martin went, that could easily be misunderstood as a request to get out of his car and go and look.
[...only by someone predisposed to do so...a lot of people would say no and remain in the safety of their car]
You are ignoring that on the tapes when Zimmerman is told that he does not need to follow Martin, the fast footsteps stop.
[...no, I'm not...he was running after TM...the fact that he may have stopped when told that they didn't need him to follow TM doesn't erase the FACT that he did it...]
You are ignoring the fact that there is no evidence Zimmerman had any physical (and by that I mean bodily or verbal) contact until Martin (by his friends testimony) went back to confront Zimmerman.
[...no, I'm not...I never hinted that he did...we're back to your interpretation of the words "physically involved with any activity you report"...and they don't say a word about a suspect...or bodily or verbal contact with a suspect...they deal with just what they say...the activity you report...and he did ignore them]
You are ignoring the fact that Zimmerman was headed back to his car (according to him and I have no reason to believe otherwise) to meet the police when he was attacked by Martin.
[...no, I'm not...that has nothing to do with anything I addressed...and is AFTER the following and chasing that I DID address]
You are painting him as a cop wanna-be, or at least a fool and a half.
[...not painting him...flat out saying the cop wanna-be...the fool and a half is your assessment]
I think in reality he was trying to be a good neighbor and watch out for his fellow man. If I had a choice between having Zimmerman or Martin as my next door neighbor I would choose Zimmerman every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
