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Abraham wrote:So-called man made climate change is snake oil hyped as a warning for the rest of us to comply with whatever the snake oil salesman says we should do. We're all SOOOO guilty.

You base that on what? The lack of 100% hard evidence that our massive energy use isn't changing the dynamics of our planet at all? Because that can't be provided, it can't be considered? You don't even find it worth considering that we *might* be impacting the planet.. And that such an impact has consequences? No offense, but I know that keeping my house cool doesn't come without a cost - it's basic physics.

There are social agendas. There are economic agendas. There is money involved. That still doesn't necessarily change anything.

To me, there are 4 camps:
1) Humans aren't contributing to climate change.
2) Humans are contributing to climate change.
3) Not sure if humans have anything to do with it.
4) The climate isn't changing. Look at this weekend, it's cold.

I find it unfortunate that a lot of social and fiscal conservatives fall into category #4. At this point, they might as well believe the world is flat, because 99.9% of the respected scientific community says that climate is changing. You're not only ignoring science, you're ignoring history... The climate has been changing for thousands of years. That's what "climate change" means to me - and it hurts my ears to hear that it's all fiction.

So that leaves the other 3 camps. I've not no solid proof on #1 or #2, although one would be wise to keep an open mind and consider because we learn new stuff every day.
If you're in camp #3:
1) Consider the consequence of humans not really being a factor and taking unnecessary action.. We clamp down the economy unnecessarily (job loss) and force some innovation that would have occurred earlier. All for nothing.
2) Consider the consequence of humans being a factor and taking action.. Likely we improve the condition of the planet and we prevent a much bigger economic melt-down than we had if we did nothing. Perhaps. Some point out that it might be moot anyway... Perhaps.
3) If humans are not a factor and we do nothing - we're no worse for wear.
4) If humans are a factor and we do nothing - well, we made a much bigger mess than we were in previously..

So, if you're not sure.. balance the risk. The odds are about 25% on those 4 choices, assuming their weighed equally.

And look there are some good things that come out of this. I like to point out that a late 1960s muscle car probably put down 400 hp and got 7mpg. Today, the same vehicle puts down 400hp and can do 20 mpg. Those "greenhouse gas" clampdowns resulted in innovation and decreased our dependance on foreign oil. We could still be driving cars that get 7mpg (if gas cost the same) and cars would cost less, but perhaps is some of it is good?

cb1000rider wrote:
I find it unfortunate that a lot of social and fiscal conservatives fall into category #4. At this point, they might as well believe the world is flat, because 99.9% of the respected scientific community says that climate is changing. You're not only ignoring science, you're ignoring history... The climate has been changing for thousands of years. That's what "climate change" means to me - and it hurts my ears to hear that it's all fiction.

Of course mankind contributes to climate change.
But the degree of climate change directly attributable to humanity as espoused by Al Gore and the other environmental millionaires is not nearly as high as it is now PC to claim.
We just came off of a lesser Ice Age thousands of years ago. In terms of years to the planet and its ecology, that is just a blink of the eye. Since the Ice Age is pretty-much over, it is now getting warmer...as a natural function of the planet's weather cycle. And it will get colder again, and warmer, and so on. It is a cycle.
What we should be doing is worrying about exhausting resources, controlling waste and other factors that we absolutely know are attributable to the predations of mankind. I guess there is not enough money in that for some of our esteemed scientists and politicians.

cb1000rider, I think you should consider that number 4 is more a reaction to the extreme radicalism of the climate change advocates. Sort of an oh, yeah, well look how cold it is in reaction to the warming is accelerating, we're all doomed!, when any boob knows we're in a pause right now.

I guess I could be called a conservative (although I'm a lot further toward the freedom scale than a lot of people who claim to be conservative). Here's my take on all this:

1) Is the climate changing? Yes. Always has, always will.
2) Is this warming period threatening the survival of mankind? Highly, highly doubtful.
3) Is the warming being forced by man's use of CO2? There is no convincing evidence of that. However, it's very troubling that some scientists have falsified data in an effort to prove it. It's also troubling that some are trying to shout down any criticism of their "findings".
4) Are there some in the warming movement who would like to strip us of our rights? Absolutely. Unequivocally.

Given the above factors, I think extreme caution in pursuing a lets-fix-global-warming agenda is very necessary. I think the public has been changing their mind as the weather changes. As they don't see hotter and hotter summers, they begin to question the scientists who warn of rising oceans, submerged cities and dying polar bears when they see those things not happening.

Personally, I think man's hubris leads him to believe he can affect the weather when his most powerful attempts to do so have been met with nature's chuckle. One major volcanic eruption would do more damage than anything man can or will ever do. (And we even have historical proof of that!)

The 1991 Pinatubo eruption probably spewed more pollutants into the atmosphere in one belch than all of man's internal combustion engines since the 1890's. And we really think that we're in control?


JD

Added comments in red . . .

baldeagle wrote: 1) Is the climate changing? Yes. Always has, always will. No question. Much of N. America has been covered by glaciers hundreds of feet thick - which then melted. This has happened MANY times. And I'll wager the melting wasn't because of Fred Flintstone's SUV.
2) Is this warming period threatening the survival of mankind? Highly, highly doubtful. This current warming is a result of coming out of the "Little Ice Age" and still isn't as warm as the Medieval Warm Period, which gave rise to such disasters as the Renaissance.
3) Is the warming being forced by man's use of CO2? There is no convincing evidence of that. However, it's very troubling that some scientists have falsified data in an effort to prove it. It's also troubling that some are trying to shout down any criticism of their "findings". Faking data and attempting to suppress and silence dissent - rather than debate it - undermines the credibility of global warming alarmists.
4) Are there some in the warming movement who would like to strip us of our rights? Absolutely. Unequivocally. It has all the appearance of a scam the scale of which makes Bernie Madoff's antics look like a game of three card Monte on an NYC street corner.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09 ... hing-less/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Big march brings out the cooks.

philip964 wrote:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09 ... hing-less/

Big march brings out the cooks.

That is not what any revolution needs to address. Those are anarchists, not constitutionalists.

Anygunanywhere

It was snowing with 3 foot waves here on Flathead Lake last week. It's 80°and the lake is 'flattern a flitter' today. That's climate change for sure.

philip964 wrote:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09 ... hing-less/

Big march brings out the cooks.

I prefer to call them "chefs".

ScottDLS wrote:

philip964 wrote:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09 ... hing-less/

Big march brings out the cooks.

I prefer to call them "chefs".

I figured they were planning a BBQ.

Green protesters trash the place:

http://nypost.com/2014/09/22/climate-ch ... pocrisies/

Green is the new red.

Anygunanywhere

Yea, I believe in climate change but don't believe all the hot air about it. Explain how by paying $XXXXX to someone for carbon credits with help global warming, sorry climate change?

sjfcontrol wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

philip964 wrote:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09 ... hing-less/

Big march brings out the cooks.

I prefer to call them "chefs".

I figured they were planning a BBQ.

Cooks haha, kooks

I wonder how many hypocrites flew in for the event.