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Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:02 pm**

A question arises concerning a person in possession of a concealed handgun who at the same time is a passenger of a motor vehicle or immediatley enrout to a motor vehicle controlled by another. Is the non-controlling party covered under the new Texas law?

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:09 pm**

casingpoint wrote:A question arises concerning a person in possession of a concealed handgun who at the same time is a passenger of a motor vehicle or immediatley enrout to a motor vehicle controlled by another. Is the non-controlling party covered under the new Texas law?

No.
Unless the person is an owner or partial owner of the vehicle. or has a CHL.

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:02 pm**

Liberty wrote:
casingpoint wrote:A question arises concerning a person in possession of a concealed handgun who at the same time is a passenger of a motor vehicle or immediatley enrout to a motor vehicle controlled by another. Is the non-controlling party covered under the new Texas law?
No.
Unless the person is an owner or partial owner of the vehicle. or has a CHL.

I am not so sure about this.

Does "control" necessarily mean ownership?

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:22 pm**

flintknapper wrote:
Liberty wrote:
casingpoint wrote:A question arises concerning a person in possession of a concealed handgun who at the same time is a passenger of a motor vehicle or immediatley enrout to a motor vehicle controlled by another. Is the non-controlling party covered under the new Texas law?
No.
Unless the person is an owner or partial owner of the vehicle. or has a CHL.

I am not so sure about this.

Does "control" necessarily mean ownership?

No, but the bill addressed ownership and control of the vehicle as conditions:

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED

AN ACT
relating to the prosecution of certain offenses that involve
carrying weapons on a person's property or in a person's vehicle.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a
Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as
defined by Section 71.01.

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:23 pm**

flintknapper wrote:
Liberty wrote:
casingpoint wrote:A question arises concerning a person in possession of a concealed handgun who at the same time is a passenger of a motor vehicle or immediatley enrout to a motor vehicle controlled by another. Is the non-controlling party covered under the new Texas law?
No.
Unless the person is an owner or partial owner of the vehicle. or has a CHL.

I am not so sure about this.

Does "control" necessarily mean ownership?

I doubt it. I think it can also include a driver who need not own the vehicle. After all, it's the driver that gets the speeding ticket, not the passenger even if the passenger is the owner.

But this brings up a couple of other issues. Can BOTH a non-owning driver AND an owner, who is a passenger in this example, carry at the same time without CHL's? The driver is the person "in control", while the owner owns it, right?

Also, can both a husband AND wife, one driving and one a passenger, carry at the same time without CHL's? In this case, both of them may be considered owners via community property interests, though the car is only registered to one of them and only one of them (the driver) is in control.

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:30 pm**

frankie_the_yankee wrote:I think it can also include a driver who need not own the vehicle.

I agree. You could be driving a leased or rented car.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:Can BOTH a non-owning driver AND an owner, who is a passenger in this example, carry at the same time without CHL's?

IMHO, yes.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:Also, can both a husband AND wife, one driving and one a passenger, carry at the same time without CHL's?

Again, IMHO, yes. If the driver gets a pass from the LEO, the spouse-passenger's status is not going to be an issue.

Of course, most traffic stops do not result in searches. If something happens that leads to a search, who knows what charges could be brought?

P.S.: I'll bet it won't be long until a convicted felon is arrested while driving his girlfriend's car with her carrying. Criminals often acquire disposable girlfriends that they use in this way, mooching off them.

- Jim

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:43 pm**

Liberty wrote:
flintknapper wrote:
Liberty wrote:
casingpoint wrote:A question arises concerning a person in possession of a concealed handgun who at the same time is a passenger of a motor vehicle or immediatley enrout to a motor vehicle controlled by another. Is the non-controlling party covered under the new Texas law?
No.
Unless the person is an owner or partial owner of the vehicle. or has a CHL.

I am not so sure about this.

Does "control" necessarily mean ownership?
No, but the bill addressed ownership and control of the vehicle as conditions:
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED

AN ACT
relating to the prosecution of certain offenses that involve
carrying weapons on a person's property or in a person's vehicle.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a
Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as
defined by Section 71.01.

Here is our answer....plain as day:

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:58 pm**

So an armed passenger who doesn't own/rent/lease the vehicle is out of luck if they don't have a CHL?

Posted: **Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:09 pm**

cbr600 wrote:So an armed passenger who doesn't own/rent/lease the vehicle is out of luck if they don't have a CHL?

Unless they are travelling!!

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