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I really don't want to sound like a Rambo here, but I'll have a hard time giving up anything of mine of value.

In my wallet, I rarely carry more than $20 in cash. I'll just toss my wallet, and then call my bank and credit card folks ASAP.

If i'm carrying more than $20 or so, I'd probably be more intent on resisting.

If someone is going after something like my car, or in my house, I will definitely resist to the best of my ability.

IMHO, no amount of money is worth anybody dieing over (including the BG) but you have know idea whats going through a BG's mind. Also, if he gets your DL & CHL, he knows where you live and that you most likely have more guns at home. To some BG's, the possiblity of aquiring guns is worth taking additional risks.

Dwight K. Schrute wrote:IDs? Those will be in the trash if they don't just get tossed on the street first. ...........

Don't count on it. ID's are more valuable these days than $$$ to someone who uses identity theft to finance thier way of life.

Everything I own is insured and/or can be replaced but having to deal w/ a stolen identity is something no one should have to go through.

A good piece of advice from Ayoob is to carry a mugger roll (several $1 bills with a $10-$20 bill on outside rolled up tight and secured with a rubber band). This can be tossed to use as a distraction to allow drawing. If mugger grabs it and runs, call 911. If he/they want to continue the festivities then it is "Shooter Stand By" time.

The Ayoob advice is good.

If someone comes up and demands money (without a weapon), my first response will be to get away. If I can't get away (at gas pump, have small children with me, etc.) I may or may not comply, depending on other circumstances. My first line of business is to get away.

If BG has a weapon or if there are multiples chasing me, I have reason to believe that they want more than material items, and the fight is on.

I see it as a free citizens civic duty to resist a violent criminal with whatever means are at hand. By not resisting, you will empower this criminal and encourage him to commit more crime. With each criminal act, he will become even more bold, and potentially more violent. Your resistance could save not only the lives of future victims, but the criminals life as well.

CHLSteve wrote:OK, so hypothetical scenario:

BG walks up to you, evening or nighttime, as you pass by, and says, "Give me your wallet!" He doesn't appear to be armed at first glance, just mean.

What to do? Draw? Shoot? Run?

Tell him "No," and get ready to fight/draw, possibly to include displaying my holstered firearm or other "deterrent device."

Puts the BG in a reactive role rather than an active one, and lets him know he doesn't have control of the situation. He's a little more likely to think twice about continuing, and if he does persist, I'm already prepared to fight. At the very least, it puts me on a more equal footing, readiness-wise.

Man I hate thief's!
And yes, I will do what I need to to keep what is mine. Be it my wallet, my boots, or my soiled handkerchief. Exactly what I will do is up to the punk.
Did I mention that I hate thief's?

Dan

Dwight K. Schrute wrote:Let me clarify first that I have no doubt...

Jumping in late here so forgive me if you've heard this before but, as someone with just a little experience in this area I want to say the following...
If you haven't been there yet, you may have no doubt now, but you really won't know until you are there. I'm not trying to make some macho speech here and I'm not saying you'll freeze and die, though that's certainly a possibility. What I am saying is the picture currently in your mind may not be what unfolds before you the day you are elected. I am saying for the benefit of all who may not realize it that your first introduction to the fact that there is a threat may be mentally waking up in the middle of a fight that started without you.

Dwight K. Schrute wrote:If some punk wanted my wallet and did not present a threat to me...

If he has not presented a threat, what's the point in giving up you wallet?

Dwight K. Schrute wrote:...Those things will be canceled and flagged stolen before he can even reach the nearest place that would accept them...

Would you really like to bet on that? There are plenty of documented cases of stolen credit cards being used within minutes of the theft and BEFORE the owner had time to report them stolen. The good news however, is that many if not most card issuers will not hold you responsible for unauthorized use of your card provided you report the theft in a timely manner. Now, on that vein...Do you have your account numbers and the card issuer's phone number memorized? If not, do you at least have some way of making those calls within the first hour after the theft? Personally, my way of dealing with this is I only have one active credit card and one active banking card with which I do business so I've got a lot less crap to remember. YMMV.

Oh and on the original subject/question...My wallet alone generally is not THAT valuable. I try to limit the liability contained within my wallet but, if someone really is a threat to ME, I have to assume it's generally a deadly threat and act within the confines of the situation. Generally however, I exhibit anti-social behavior that keeps me "off the X" and out of most situations where one might typically get mugged. I'm a big boy but I've got fast feet!

It seems to me that the decision about what is worth dying for in a strong arm robbery/mugging has already been made when it occurs....the BG has made a conscious decision to risk his life for a wallet or purse. Whether injured, killed, or sent to prison, the BG has made that decision, and I will use the appropriate level of force required to deal with his/her decision.

If he shows enough threat to get the wallet he has shown enough threat to get the lead.

Go aggressively demand money from a bank and see how they react! Silly thinking. The act of demanding something so valuable is a threat in and of itself.

Walk up to a strange woman and aggressively demand sex now! This will be deemed as a threat.

Go tell a strange couple with children that you want their kids NOW! This will be deemed a threat!

No different than your wallet, it is to valuable and taken by force to often for a reasonable person not to see a threat behind the demand for the wallet. The unspoken "OR ELSE" is a threat.

Asking or begging for money is one thing, aggressively demanding a wallet is another.

Afff_667 wrote:It seems to me that the decision about what is worth dying for in a strong arm robbery/mugging has already been made when it occurs....the BG has made a conscious decision to risk his life for a wallet or purse. Whether injured, killed, or sent to prison, the BG has made that decision, and I will use the appropriate level of force required to deal with his/her decision.

I think I can clarify this a bit.

It's true that the BG has actually made two decisions, one to risk his/her own life and the other being to put yours at risk.

You also have two decisions to make. One is, do the actions you might take in resisting the BG increase or decrease the risk to your life and limb? The other is, is protecting your stuff worth risking the BG's life and limb for?

Due to situational variables, there are no simple answers to these questions. (I know that statistically resistance produces better outcomes, but each situation is still different.)

Of course, in a real situation there is no time to ponder these matters. It is more a matter of simply reacting to events as they happen. This is also why people teach that situational awareness is so important in getting ahead of the curve.

CHLSteve wrote:OK, so hypothetical scenario:

BG walks up to you, evening or nighttime, as you pass by, and says, "Give me your wallet!" He doesn't appear to be armed at first glance, just mean.

What to do? Draw? Shoot? Run?

Me, by my self..... Run like I am on fire.

Me with my friends.... Start a fight. JK

Me with my family (wife and young kids) seperate my family from the BG by placing myself in between and draw the 40 S&W while asking him to leave us alone.

I am kinda protective of my family.

While I mostly agree with your general point, I couldn't help but be struck by the example you cite quoted below.

Hamourkiller wrote: Go aggressively demand money from a bank and see how they react! Silly thinking. The act of demanding something so valuable is a threat in and of itself.

I think in most such cases, a bank will simply cough up the money and call the cops as soon as you leave, or earlier if they can trigger a silent alarm.

Very few banks employ armed guards these days. It's been a long time since I've heard of a bank employee or guard pulling a gun on a robber.

They carry insurance for this stuff too, so they don't really care.

But like I said, your main point (that the demand embodies a serious threat) is more or less valid, IMO.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:While I mostly agree with your general point, I couldn't help but be struck by the example you cite quoted below.

Hamourkiller wrote: Go aggressively demand money from a bank and see how they react! Silly thinking. The act of demanding something so valuable is a threat in and of itself.

I think in most such cases, a bank will simply cough up the money and call the cops as soon as you leave, or earlier if they can trigger a silent alarm.

Very few banks employ armed guards these days. It's been a long time since I've heard of a bank employee or guard pulling a gun on a robber.

They carry insurance for this stuff too, so they don't really care.

But like I said, your main point (that the demand embodies a serious threat) is more or less valid, IMO.

I meant that the bank and police would take it as a bank robery attempt, nothing more. How they would respond would depend upon each individual circumstance. Just as we would have to do if this happens to us.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:They carry insurance for this stuff too, so they don't really care.

Not that it matters, but I never heard of insurance that covers the loss of cash money.

Banks often have a special bundle of money to give a robber that has an exploding dye pack in it. The limit their loss by giving the robber what looks like a lot of money and isn't.

- Jim