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Am I understanding that a 16-year-old with a valid driver's license and no criminal record, etc. can carry in his/her vehicle?

seamusTX wrote:Can someone who is not a licensed driver own a vehicle in Texas? Every time I have bought a car, I have been required to show my license and insurance card.

There is no requirement to have a license to own a car in Texas. You must have insurance to register it, but many companies will sell you insurance without a license. This is one of the big complaints in the motorcycle community (kids buy bikes and insurance with no experience and no license, then kill themselves instead of learning to ride properly).

As a matter of fact, I know o one ten-year-old that legally owns a car in Texas. His grandfather left it to him for school later on. It is tagged, inspected and insured by the parents with the kid's name on the title.

I never thought about it, but I guess this law means the kid could legally carry a gun in the car, with the parent's written approval of course.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Renegade wrote:First, there is no traveling right.

Yes there is. A U.S. Supreme Court case (Ollie's Bar-B-Q) from the early days of the civil rights movement held that a restaurant's refusal to serve a black customer violated his right to travel, because it denied him food and food is necessary when traveling. I haven't thought about this case since law school, so I can't recall the details of the opinion.

Chas.

OK, Let me re-phrase that.

First, there is no traveling right, as it relates to the carrying of firearms while traveling in the the State of Texas by drug dealing kids of some unknown age as defined in PC 46.02 or PC 46.15 and used in the context of this thread.

seamusTX wrote:

Renegade wrote:Ownership of the vehicle, or having a drivers license are not requirements of the law. So it is possible to not have a DL, and not own the car, and still be legal. For example, me and my 18 YO son who does not have a DL yet, are walking to the car. I give him keys to let him in to car, while I go back to house to get something. The vehicle is clearly "under the person's control".

That might make for some interesting case law, but I'm not willing to foot the bill.

- Jim

Your example is case law, mine is a direct read of the actual law.

seamusTX wrote:Can someone who is not a licensed driver own a vehicle in Texas? Every time I have bought a car, I have been required to show my license and insurance card.

- Jim

I don't see why not. A corporation can own a motor vehicle. If a natural person has their DL suspended or revoked, or allows it to lapse, I doubt they have to immediately sell their cars and motorcycles. You may have to show a license and insurance if you finance a vehicle, but I don't know if it's required if you pay cash and trailer the vehicle home (e.g. motard or track bike.) Heck, according to the DPS webpage for new residents, when I move to Texas later this year, I'm supposed to register my vehicles before I get a TX DL. (I'm not sure how that's supposed to work for my leased car, but that's off topic for this forum. )

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Renegade wrote:First, there is no traveling right.

Yes there is. A U.S. Supreme Court case (Ollie's Bar-B-Q) from the early days of the civil rights movement held that a restaurant's refusal to serve a black customer violated his right to travel, because it denied him food and food is necessary when traveling. I haven't thought about this case since law school, so I can't recall the details of the opinion.

Chas.

Interesting how "food" helped to define traveling in this case...Not firearms...

There are multiple SCOTUS rulings that travel (including driving a motor vehicle) is a right, not a privilege. I'll dig them up when I have a chance.

Renegade wrote:

seamusTX wrote:

Renegade wrote:Ownership of the vehicle, or having a drivers license are not requirements of the law. So it is possible to not have a DL, and not own the car, and still be legal. For example, me and my 18 YO son who does not have a DL yet, are walking to the car. I give him keys to let him in to car, while I go back to house to get something. The vehicle is clearly "under the person's control".

That might make for some interesting case law, but I'm not willing to foot the bill.

Your example is case law, mine is a direct read of the actual law.

I assert that if the police have reason to stop someone, and if they have the reasonable suspicion required for a Terry search, and if they find a handgun, and if they think in good faith person is violating PC 46.02, that person is going to be arrested and charged, go to jail, and possibly stay there until a bond hearing is held. Even if the charge is dropped when someone from the district attorney's office examines it, it's a bad situation.

FWIW, here is the bill analysis from the legislature: http://www.hro.house.state.tx.us/PDF/ba80R/HB1815.PDF. While not germane to the current discussion, it's interesting how often the word traveling occurs.

- Jim

KBCraig wrote:There are multiple SCOTUS rulings that travel (including driving a motor vehicle) is a right, not a privilege.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#travel

The right to travel is a clear example of rights that are so basic that they were not thought necessary to put in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

- Jim

Wow, this thread has really gone off on a tangent.

Venus Pax wrote:Am I understanding that a 16-year-old with a valid driver's license and no criminal record, etc. can carry in his/her vehicle?

The laws regarding UCW certainly seem to say just that. But... Isn't there a state or federal law that prohibits making a firearm accessible to anyone under the age of 17?

barres wrote:The laws regarding UCW certainly seem to say just that. But... Isn't there a state or federal law that prohibits making a firearm accessible to anyone under the age of 17?

There is a state law that makes it illegal to give a minor a firearm (PC 46.06) and another that makes it an offense allow a minor to be in possession of a loaded firearm (PC 46.13); but there is no state law that makes it an offense for the minor to possess a weapon.

The state laws are really aimed at criminals who give firearms to minors either to commit a crime or avoid charges of felon with a firearm, or parents who leave weapons available, leading to an accidental shooting or crime.

There is a federal law that says nearly the same thing. It makes an exception for minors under the supervision of an adult and with permission of their parents or guardian. However, this is another federal law that is rarely if ever prosecuted because it is constitutionally questionable.

- Jim

Renegade wrote:Interesting article. I am a little surprised at the pro-gun attitude from Plano, PD. Not surprised at the anti-gun attitude from Dallas PD (We're letting drug dealers with Glocks under the seat go and say have a nice day), and Dallas County DA.

Claiming it make the CHL law obsolete is kind of narrow minded.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-10-2 ... ill-travel

I wrote the Dallas Observer a nice little letter in regards to that particular article, I felt pretty good about mentioning the Dallas Officers way of saying "only cops should carry guns, my job is to save me (first) and you/yours when I get there!!) attitude.

medicff0879 wrote:

Renegade wrote:Interesting article. I am a little surprised at the pro-gun attitude from Plano, PD. Not surprised at the anti-gun attitude from Dallas PD (We're letting drug dealers with Glocks under the seat go and say have a nice day), and Dallas County DA.

Claiming it make the CHL law obsolete is kind of narrow minded.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-10-2 ... ill-travel

I wrote the Dallas Observer a nice little letter in regards to that particular article, I felt pretty good about mentioning the Dallas Officers way of saying "only cops should carry guns, my job is to save me (first) and you/yours when I get there!!) attitude.

A point that needs to be made every single time we see these comments...

They have every right to say it, but we have every right to vehemently point out the dangerous consequences of such attitudes and hypocracy!