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KBCraig wrote: That said, I strongly disagree with those who are assigning blame to him over this, especially anyone suggesting that he apologize!

I don't care if the door was unlocked. I don't even care if it was standing wide open. Banging on someone's door and yelling, then barging in uninvited, is a good way to get shot!

And I strongly disagree with that. First, he mentioned that he's created an environment where his in-laws are *used* to coming in his unlocked door. Second, when you lower your defenses to the point where anybody can enter your house without resistance, it is *your* fault that you've limited your options so severely that you've eliminated your ability to respond to an intruder in any other way that face-to-face once he's already inside your home.

When a relative feels comfortable enough to walk into your home unannounced and through an unlocked door, it's because *you* have created the environment that allows them to do that. If the only boundaries are in *your* head (they'd called before in the past, and without notice it might be ok except for the fact that there were several unrelated incidents with someone pounding on the door at night) and not physical, then indeed, only you are to blame for pointing a loaded weapon at someone who could not have had any idea that they might be crossing those boundaries, boundaries they didn't know about.

Walking into your daughter's house, in the *exact same* manner as many times before is not foolish. Leaving your doors unlocked however, is.

It was a combination of your MIL's barging in and your leaving the door unlocked...

as much as i'd like to toss a few rounds at my MIL sometimes, i'm going to have to say she should know better... as should you...

lock your doors,
good job at being ready
sorry you weren't allowed to pop her once.. (<--joke)

since those of us with a MIL know that we have to be civil, no matter how much we dream of shooting them...
I'd recommend apologizing for your "overreaction" and try your best to keep things civil with the in-laws...

to do such means sucking it up and not going for the kill on the fact that entering your house without knocking or announcing their intentions is stupid and dangerous...

sorry to say it, but you've got to take the bullet (figuratively) on this one...



(The above post was meant in humor, i do not condone shooting one's mother in law no matter how much she "needs it")

We are getting some really weird scenarios around here lately...

"I carry a gun on my hip 24/7, ready to draw at a moments notice, but I leave the front door unlocked."

What

Cipher wrote: I admitted leaving the doors unlocked was a mistake, even though I've never felt inclined to lock them during the day, I will be from now on. I see it being a challenge keeping them locked with kids in the house though.

I'm a strong believer in *always* keeping your doors locked. I know that it's more of an issue when you have children though. We had a thread on here recently about keyless locks, and that may be something you might want to look into. It's, in my opinion, the easiest safest way to keep your house locked all the time and still accessible to the children. Some of them have user-changeable codes, and can lock automatically when the door is closed.
Here's one site that offers residential locks: http://www.gokeyless.com/residentialhomes.htm

Cipher wrote: However, good guys aren't the only ones who will stand outside a door and yell "hello, hello" (and there were about 10 other "hello's in there too), and having my door flung open, daylight, unlocked or otherwise is good reason for me to draw and get prepared - I was 10 feet from the door, had it not been friendlies I don't think I would've had time to react if I was still holstered.

As I see it, the door being unlocked was my fault, not knowing we were expecting company wasn't.

This is true, but you've created an environment (at least that's what I've gathered from your first post) where your in-laws feel comfortable walking in the door when they arrive. Why should they feel any differently, just because they hadn't called ahead this time? I gather that you never instructed them to do anything differently if they were going to drop-in, no?

Cipher wrote: And, just because my door was unlocked doesn't mean I shouldn't react when it opens unexpectedly. It's as though some of you are taking the stance that because my door was unlocked I shouldn't defend the house any longer, or react when it opens.

Again true, but why on *earth* would you put yourself in that position? A locked door is one of the strongest defenses you have between you and potential trouble. The point is not that you *can't* defend yourself against intruders, it's that you shouldn't create a situation where a) intruders can get in without any effort so that you're *forced* to deal with them inside your home, and b) so that you're *forced* to try and discern someone's intentions *after* they're already in your house!

Cipher wrote: So, let's make a hypothetical situation out of this:

You are in your house, your 8 year old kid just came in from outside (and remembered to close the front door). 10 minutes later you hear knocking, so you get up to see who it is. 10 feet from the away, the door flings open. You're telling me you wouldn't prepare to fight? Since your door was unlocked you would just stand there and let whatever happened happen?

My doors are always locked. If I had children, I would have knobs installed that locked themselves automatically on closing. If that wasn't an option, my children would *know* that when they come in the door, they lock it. No, they're not going to remember all the time, and you are going to have situations where you're vulnerable. In my opinion, that's not an excuse to *not* make it a habit to follow best practices and keep your doors locked as much of the time as possible.

I see, and get, all your points. I will have a talk with my wife and her mother tomorrow about what happened and changes I'm going to make to prevent it from happening again.

I've thought about keyless locks for awhile now. Since my wife and I usually use the garage when we get home it wouldn't be much of a hassle. I'm also a big computer geek, it's what I do, and I've also seriously entertained the idea of getting an RFID chip implanted in my hand and getting an RFID lock that will open the door when I get in range of it. Cool, eh :) People are already doing it, and the procedure is nothing more than a shot (it's the same thing as the "Home Again" dog tracking implants).


Again, I agree with, and get all your points above. I DO NOT agree that I overreacted. I had no idea who was at the door, I had no idea we were expecting company, and I didn't expect the door to fly open. I think I acted appropriately given what I knew at the time. I also think that what happened has affirmed my training in going to a low ready and not center mass right away. My finger wasn't on the trigger, but the weapon was out and I was ready to face the "threat". I do not think I overreacted.



Lykoi, I see the humor in your post. However, I have a really good relationship with my MIL (except for the gun part) - after all, she's the one that talked my wife into having that first date with me :)

KBCraig wrote:I think Cipher agrees (and knew beforehand) that unlocked doors are a bad habit.

That said, I strongly disagree with those who are assigning blame to him over this, especially anyone suggesting that he apologize!

I don't care if the door was unlocked. I don't even care if it was standing wide open. Banging on someone's door and yelling, then barging in uninvited, is a good way to get shot!

I suggest printing out the recent news items about people who have been shot and killed answering their own front doors. Pass them out to all those family members who have called to castigate Cipher over this incident. Ask them if they find it more morally acceptable to allow someone unknown to barge in on a mother and infant, than to be prepared to defend those innocent lives.

I think you did good. Drawing to low ready showed great restraint -- I'd have been at high ready.

And don't forget to lock your doors.

Thanks! I think your the first on here not scorning me about the door being unlocked.

Cipher wrote:

KBCraig wrote:I think Cipher agrees (and knew beforehand) that unlocked doors are a bad habit.

That said, I strongly disagree with those who are assigning blame to him over this, especially anyone suggesting that he apologize!

I don't care if the door was unlocked. I don't even care if it was standing wide open. Banging on someone's door and yelling, then barging in uninvited, is a good way to get shot!

I suggest printing out the recent news items about people who have been shot and killed answering their own front doors. Pass them out to all those family members who have called to castigate Cipher over this incident. Ask them if they find it more morally acceptable to allow someone unknown to barge in on a mother and infant, than to be prepared to defend those innocent lives.

I think you did good. Drawing to low ready showed great restraint -- I'd have been at high ready.

And don't forget to lock your doors.

Thanks! I think your the first on here not scorning me about the door being unlocked.

I'm still not sure how it is possible to keep doors locked with small active children unless you keep them as prisoners. kids aren't very good with keys and locks. Its easy for those of us without youngsters going in and out a few dozen times a day to keep our doors locked.

Will someone please explain to me in simple words and short sentences how the following statements can all be true?

• An adult man needs to carry a pistol 24/7 inside his house.
• Unknown persons of unknown intent bang on the door frequently.
• It's OK for children of tender years to play outside unsupervised.

- Jim

Maybe I'm preparing myself too much, maybe I'm training too much. Unholstering and getting into a low ready was purely instinctive, I didn't have time to think, I've got the move so committed to muscle memory that it happened without me thinking about it. That's a bad thing?

IMHO, yes.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Maybe I'm preparing myself too much, maybe I'm training too much. Unholstering and getting into a low ready was purely instinctive, I didn't have time to think, I've got the move so committed to muscle memory that it happened without me thinking about it. That's a bad thing?

IMHO, yes.

I guess I have a different way of looking at the situation…what was the outcome?

Did you shoot your Mother in Law…no (I assume that was a "good" outcome )

Did you end up in divorce court…doesn’t appear so

Was anyone in the family traumatized…doesn’t appear so from your post

The end result isn’t that negative, so I don’t see that you did anything that wrong.

For those that have brought their weapons into play (doesn’t have to be a shooting, just brought the weapon into play) I bet when you look back you always see something you could have handled better. That doesn’t mean what you did was “wrong�.

Not recognizing the voice and then drawing to low ready when the door opened is tactically sound…even though it may be politically incorrect (having your MIL looking down a barrel, especially if she’s anti, is bound to cause some issues in the family ).

If it had of been 2 BG’s intent on breaking in, and you didn’t draw, you would probably be listening to a lot of explanations of why you should never go to the door without your weapon already drawn (take a look at http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=11975).

No offense to your MIL, but anyone who is not expected and just walks into someones house (family or not) is bound to be shot eventually. Why you are catching flack for what you did is beyond me. I had a very similar incident, and told people DO NOT walk into my home as I am armed and will assume it is a home invasion. They laugh, but I'm not kidding. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.

If I had been in the same scenario I would have acted the same way, no question. I would not apologize for protecting my family. Great job!

A small child doesn't have to be used in your hypothetical situation; My 22 year old came by yesterday to visit. She unlocked the front door and entered, not locking it behind her. I did not realize it had been left unlocked until I did my walk through prior to going to sleep.

Many moons ago, right after I was discharged from the Navy, we were living in a rural area in a trailer. (Thanks, JImmy Carter).

We had noticed several unsavory types cruising our road.

I kept a short barreled 20 ga pump on top of the entertainment center. It was dark out, late evening. porch light on, front door locked.

I was lounging on the sofa. I heard a noise, saw the storm door opening through the window on the front door. I sprang up, grabbed the shotgun, racked a shell in the chamber, opened the front door, and stuck the barrel into my younger sister's open mouth. Safety was off.

She raised all kinds of fuss after she spit out the taste of gun oil.

I told her that first, she did not call, second, never try to open the door.

I never walk into someone's property unannounced.

I always call before I visit.

I expect the same.

Just because someone is family does not mean they should not respect your personal property.

This individual's (OP's) MIL is treating her daughter and SIL as her property.

Lock the doors, lay down the law in your house, and stand your ground.

To heck with what everyone else thinks. They need to come around to your way of thinking.

Anygun

I tell "The Kid" that unless she's in the motion of going through the door, it is to be locked.
that's how we do it 'roun hurr.

seamusTX wrote:Will someone please explain to me in simple words and short sentences how the following statements can all be true?

• An adult man needs to carry a pistol 24/7 inside his house.
• Unknown persons of unknown intent bang on the door frequently.
• It's OK for children of tender years to play outside unsupervised.

- Jim

• I don't "need" to, but I do believe "Chance favors the prepared mind". Since I'm in and out of the house a lot it is simpler to just be armed at all times unless I know I'm in for the night. Is there that many people on here that think their house is so impenetrable that they can't understand the desire to remain armed in doors?
• That part I don't understand, it has just recently started. We live in a "good" neighborhood and haven't had any problems (save for one a couple of years ago with our drunk neighbor). Up until these events started I've never questioned the relative safety of our neighborhood.
• Define "tender". It is ok for my younger kids to play in the front as long as an adult is out with them OR my oldest daughter (9) is with them OR they play in visible sight of the office window and front storm door. Of course, these rules are going to change since the recent events - NOTE I only have my two oldest daughters every-other weekend, I haven't explained the new rules to them yet, but it's coming.

However, it's still pretty difficult to get my 9yo to remember to close the door. I think that is going to be more challenging to get her to understand then my MIL.