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If there is any doubt drive slow activteflashers drive to populated location call 911 and tell them what's up and your location,and they will be able to tell you yes that is an leo, or no keep driving we have units responding

anygunanywhere wrote:There is a whole slew of the working I-10 around Beaumont. Not Crown Victorias. Expeditions, Tahoes, even saw a mini-van. None of the LEO's have what you would call uniforms. They all are wearing their tacticool best.

A sore point with me. I believe police initiating contact with the public (with possible exception of detectives) should always wear a traditional uniform.

BDUs strengthen the mindset of a militarized police force.

KBCraig wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:There is a whole slew of the working I-10 around Beaumont. Not Crown Victorias. Expeditions, Tahoes, even saw a mini-van. None of the LEO's have what you would call uniforms. They all are wearing their tacticool best.

A sore point with me. I believe police initiating contact with the public (with possible exception of detectives) should always wear a traditional uniform.

BDUs strengthen the mindset of a militarized police force.

With all due respect to law enforcement, I believe the continued militarization of our police forces, just because, does no one good anyway you look at it...

I agree, KB. This was kinda the point I was driving at. If the current trend continues I expect to see SWAT running radar traps.

Oops. Did I say trap?

IIwatson, hopefully more LEO who frequent this site will chime in. I seldom put myself in a position to attract attention anymore since it really isn't worth the hassle. More opinions would be nice to help others with advice on what to do. The faux-cop thing is happening way too often.

Anygun

I think one of the real problems is that t-shirts, golf shirts, caps, jackets and whatever else marked "police", "sheriff", "constable", "security" or anything else should be illegal to sell to anyone who doesn't have a valid license/I.D. Same thing should be done with red/blue lights and related equipment. Unless your outfitting an actual emergency vehicle I see no reason for anyone to have red or blue lights facing the front. I have no problem with amber lights as far as warning or construction lights.
There are so many catalogs and on-line merchants that sell this stuff to just about anyone with the money to pay for it.

While I fully recognize the threat posed by the fake cops, I wanted to point out the potential problem with not pulling over, even if you call 911.

First, the law says you will pull over and stop for a police vehicle. It does not require the car to be marked, and unmarked cars are specifically provided for in the law. No matter how slow you go, the officer could get mad and arrest you for a felony (evading arrest in a motor vehicle). I think you would win in court, but we all know what that means.

Second, calling 911 will not tell you if the car is a real LEO or not. Consider who gets the 911 call and how many departments are out there. The officers could be from a different department, working a different radio system completely. For example, in San Antonio, the 911 calls are answered by the city police. The officer could be from any of several departments that use the sheriff's office for dispatch. There is no way for the person on the phone to verify the police status. I hope they will send a car to check it out for you, but I cannot guarantee it.

And for those of you that want the officer in uniform, I would point out that TABC has almost 300 officers, all in unmarked cars. The only people in the agency that wear uniforms are not peace officers and are working the bridges to Mexico. Our officers are generally in suits and ties, but could be less formal than that.

Having pointed out all of those dangers and points, I recommend the same thing that most of you have said. Slow down, keep going until you feel it is safe, such as a gas station lot or a grocery store (as long as they are both still open), and call for another officer, just in case.

I just want you to make an informed decision and know what you are risking.

Tomball police has a new I think it a chevy malibu that has the lights on the dash and almost no
markings.
The car is a charcoal black and has what I call ghost lettering on the side that you can only see
from a certain angle that the light hits it . I dont know if they use it at night or not .

txinvestigator wrote:If a marked car attempts to pull you over you should stop. We all know what a police car looks like.

If an unmarked car tries to pull you over you have a couple of options.

1) Decide not to stop until there is a marked unit on the scene. To do this I would turn on my flashers, call 911 and report that a vehicle that did not appear to be a LE vehicle was trying to pull me over and I need help. I would drive slowly too, in case it was a real cop, at least it would show that I was NOT trying to get away or ignore him.

2) Decide to stop. If the person exiting the car did not appear to be a cop I would then drive off while calling 911.

I hope these fools get convicted and get the maximum penalty for this. Morons.

srothstein wrote:And for those of you that want the officer in uniform, I would point out that TABC has almost 300 officers, all in unmarked cars. The only people in the agency that wear uniforms are not peace officers and are working the bridges to Mexico. Our officers are generally in suits and ties, but could be less formal than that.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they typically initiate contact in a generally peaceful way, by presenting badge/credentials and introducing themselves, all in a business environment? ("Business environment" obviously including some shady environs, but also upscale hotel bars.)

I know y'all can light people up with the red-and-blues, but it's not SOP.

Anyhoo... I consider TABC agents to fall under the same exemption I gave for detectives; they're investigators, after all. I also grant a broad exemption for bicycle cops and their alternative uniforms.

Oh, and brief aside... is it still true (if it ever was) that TABC revenue agents are authorized to collect importation taxes on the spot, and in lieu of taxes may seize and/or destroy imported alcohol? I read that long ago, but never bothered tracking down if it was legend or fact. Living here in "dry" (like a martini) Bowie County, we have to buy our beer across the street in Texarkana, Arkiesaw. That, or pay the "Sunday tax" (forgot to buy beer on Saturday!) in Domino, the one "wet" spot in Cass County.

In other words, we "import" a lot of untaxed alcohol.

308nato wrote:Tomball police has a new I think it a chevy malibu that has the lights on the dash and almost no
markings.
The car is a charcoal black and has what I call ghost lettering on the side that you can only see
from a certain angle that the light hits it . I dont know if they use it at night or not .

APD has some of these as well, although I think theirs are Chargers. Very dark gray, ghost lettering as you described, tricked out with what sounds like superchargers and ground effects all the way around. They look like the tricked out cars that people that spend entirely too much on their car own. You can pretty much see the markings only at a 90 degree angle (perpendicular to the car, looking at the side). I think I've seen a Travis County Sheriff car like this in a dark gold/beige variety.

srothstein wrote: Having pointed out all of those dangers and points, I recommend the same thing that most of you have said. Slow down, keep going until you feel it is safe, such as a gas station lot or a grocery store (as long as they are both still open), and call for another officer, just in case.

This is essentially what the Seguin PD taught in its most recent Civilian Police Academy program. If you are in a remote area and have any doubt about the legitimacy of the vehicle trying to stop you, turn on your emergency blinkers, call 911 if you can, and drive carefully to a populated area. Regarding the 911 dispatchers knowing about the stop, if I understood the instructor correctly, he said that all agencies operating in a given area listen to the same 911 dispatch office (e.g., the one in the Seguin PD for more-or-less all of Guadalupe County). Unfortunately, my notes on this are in a car that's in the shop so I can't check them, but I believe I remember correctly what we were told.

Please allow me to offer a different perspective on why it is unwise to pull over for a police car in a deserted area.

I'm a 32-year-old female with a medium build. I am not trained in mixed martial arts or any other type of self-defense, other than the use of my handgun. I cannot see myself pulling over on the side of a deserted road to talk to a man that has the legal right to take my best, and possibly only, means of defense from me. Although they aren't the norm, there are a few bad cops out there. (One that worked with my mom went on trial for rape about ten years ago. Again, most didn't, but it's not something I care to go through.)

I planned long ago not to pull over on a deserted road for any car--marked or not. When I get to a populated area, I'll explain to the LEO, in a respectful tone, that I wasn't comfortable pulling over in a deserted area. This may get me a ticket, but I'd rather pay a ticket than experience a violent crime.

I appreciate the LEOs on the forum giving us the worst-case scenario on the consequences for this.

My female cousin recently sent me an e mail to tell me about something called "*77", supposedly a number you can call on cell phone and be connected to someone who can validate the unmarked car and who will immediately call other LE if the car is not a police vehicle.
I have not tried it and do not know of anyone to ask about it.
Does anyone know of this number?

drinks wrote:My female cousin recently sent me an e mail to tell me about something called "*77", supposedly a number you can call on cell phone and be connected to someone who can validate the unmarked car and who will immediately call other LE if the car is not a police vehicle.
I have not tried it and do not know of anyone to ask about it.
Does anyone know of this number?

It is not real.

If the police don't want to have a problem with this, they shouldn't pull people over in unmarked cars. End of discussion.

The fact that this problem exists is due to poor policy by police departments to use easily counter fitted, unmarked cars.