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Texasdoc wrote:I would sit back and make the best Witness, until they started the gun fight and then I would be in a place of good cover and defend myself.

Lets hope no one has to do this .


Doc

The money is insured, the cameras are rolling, no shooting is happening.

Just be a good witness.

bullseye10x wrote:Saw this local report today. Imagine you are at your favorite grocery store when at least 3 heavily armed robbers storm in and take control of the kiosk bank:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pa...Y&pageId=1.1.1

If you are close enough to witness this, then you're close enough to react. But what do you do? Personally, I'm not sure I'd want to engage with so many friendlies around unless it was absolutely necessary (i.e. they are obviously about to kill someone). What say the rest of you?

I have a feeling these clowns aren't going to stop until they're caught!

You are correct that the pattern will continue until the actors are caught. Still, unless you wear a badge you have no legal obligation to do anything to correct violent criminal actors other than report the facts to the police. There are obviously circumstances where one may have no choice but to get involved. However, I can't tell everyone on this board when or when not to act. It's personal choice and it is a choice that will depend on your perception of the events unfolding before you as well as your understanding of what is and isn't justified by law.

While I’m guilty of offering opinions of my own, I actually have issues with these questions when they come up. Beyond the obvious risks of injuring innocent 3rd parties, the biggest issue I have with a lot of people opining about how they’d react is an apparent assumption by many that they’ll know who all the bad guys are. At its core this is a discussion of how one will react to an active shooter (active robbery in this case) scenario. Seriously, what will be your first clue that a bank robbery has started? Are you in this kiosk when the stuff starts or in the grocery store’s checkout line twenty to twenty-five yards away? How many armed guys do you see and are you sure you see all of them? When/if you engage the bad guys, might someone (cops, security or another CHL holder) arriving after the “party� starts, mistake you for a bad guy? If you think it will be obvious you’d better think again.

My honest answer is this...My default policy is be a good witness and let the bank use its FDIC insurance policy to replace the money lost. Despite my confidence that my skills, were I around for any such event, I'd do my best to be a good witness and nothing more. If I am forced to defend my wife, myself or the life of a third party, then I’ll act accordingly. Generally speaking, I'm not going to initiate a gunfight against multiple VCAs with dozens of unknown variables including the possibility of armed "lookouts" in the crowd who were waiting for some idiot like me to draw a gun. Even more likely is the fact that I might be mistaken for one of the VCAs by responding security personnel, another CHL holder or police officers.

Castle Doctrine and your right to carry and use deadly force would be defensible in this situation (The targets are committing aggravated robbery, therefore the teller would be jusified in using deadly force for personal protection, and thus you are justified in defending the third person without permission), but it's a tactical nightmare. 3 on 1 in what at first glance is an open space with plenty of cover but in reality is hard to maneuver in, against a rifle which wouldn't be stopped by most single surfaces or even the contents of many aisles, with a handgun against which a few bags of flour or a freezer wall presents an effective bullet stop.

bullseye10x wrote: Be careful in Houston grocery stores!

umm, this would be good advice regardless...

If these guys are this brazen chances are they have body armor on,Unless your annie or andy oakley,and can place 3 rapid head shots on the BG's before they respond,very doubtful as long as nobodys shooting ,the money is insured.I would be a good witness,they start shooting people then that's different.