TexasCHLforum.com

Russell wrote:... still think that CHL holders should not be allowed to carry into a bar.

And I still think the law should not dictate private behavior on private property.

The law shouldn't declare any private property as off limits to CHL, whether bars, race tracks, or schools. Private property owners have strong protections and a good mechanism for banning CHL if they wish to do so; the law should not usurp their rights.

Russell wrote:

Kalrog wrote:

Russell wrote:I was out partying with friends, and even though I usually limit myself to a VERY small amount of alcohol (especially when I know I am going to be driving later) I still refuse to carry when I have any amount of alcohol in my system.

I can respect that. Disagree with it, but respect it.

Just out of curiosity, what do you disagree with?

Actively driving a car if you feel you're not safe passively carrying a gun would be high on my list.

Russell,

The law does not say you can be arrested for blowing a .01 when you are carrying. It clearly states you must be intoxicated. This term is defined in the law, as you already pointed out. One of the principles of law construction is that a term is defined by the general meaning unless there is a technical meaning already set in the law. Since intoxicated is clearly (well sort of) defined in Chapter 49, it has the same meaning everywhere in the penal code.

To clear up another misconception, along with what I meant by sort of clearly defined, I will point out that the word intoxicated has two possible defeinitions, either of which can be applied at any time. The first definition is the well known flat limit of .08 BAC. If you have this level of alcohol in your blood, youa re intoxicated no matter how well you are or are not functioning. The second definition is if you have lost the normal possession of your mental or physical faculties due to the intoxication. This is much harder to show, but the commonly accepted method is a field sobriety test, preferably the Standardized Field Sobriety Test that has been validated in the lab.

And, as a general reminder, intoxicated does NOT mean alcohol. It means any substance which can affect your faculties. You can be legally intoxicated if you have taken legally prescribed drugs in their prescribed dosage. You can be intoxicated on over the counter drugs (as a DA recently mangaed to claim) or on illegal drugs.

srothstein wrote:Russell,

The law does not say you can be arrested for blowing a .01 when you are carrying. It clearly states you must be intoxicated. This term is defined in the law, as you already pointed out. One of the principles of law construction is that a term is defined by the general meaning unless there is a technical meaning already set in the law. Since intoxicated is clearly (well sort of) defined in Chapter 49, it has the same meaning everywhere in the penal code.

To clear up another misconception, along with what I meant by sort of clearly defined, I will point out that the word intoxicated has two possible defeinitions, either of which can be applied at any time. The first definition is the well known flat limit of .08 BAC. If you have this level of alcohol in your blood, youa re intoxicated no matter how well you are or are not functioning. The second definition is if you have lost the normal possession of your mental or physical faculties due to the intoxication. This is much harder to show, but the commonly accepted method is a field sobriety test, preferably the Standardized Field Sobriety Test that has been validated in the lab.

And, as a general reminder, intoxicated does NOT mean alcohol. It means any substance which can affect your faculties. You can be legally intoxicated if you have taken legally prescribed drugs in their prescribed dosage. You can be intoxicated on over the counter drugs (as a DA recently mangaed to claim) or on illegal drugs.

Good points and a good reminder.


Also,
Thank You Steve... for all your time and participation here. It's not often that civilians have a chance to ask questions and share ideas with LEO such as yourself. I know I can speak for us all when I say, "we greatly appreciate it".

I have learned a lot and gained much insight from your many posts here.

Good job Sir!

+1. Thank you for your public posts and willingness to privately assist on LE questions. The time you take is appreciated.

Jason

flintknapper wrote:

srothstein wrote:Russell,

The law does not say you can be arrested for blowing a .01 when you are carrying. It clearly states you must be intoxicated. This term is defined in the law, as you already pointed out. One of the principles of law construction is that a term is defined by the general meaning unless there is a technical meaning already set in the law. Since intoxicated is clearly (well sort of) defined in Chapter 49, it has the same meaning everywhere in the penal code.

To clear up another misconception, along with what I meant by sort of clearly defined, I will point out that the word intoxicated has two possible defeinitions, either of which can be applied at any time. The first definition is the well known flat limit of .08 BAC. If you have this level of alcohol in your blood, youa re intoxicated no matter how well you are or are not functioning. The second definition is if you have lost the normal possession of your mental or physical faculties due to the intoxication. This is much harder to show, but the commonly accepted method is a field sobriety test, preferably the Standardized Field Sobriety Test that has been validated in the lab.

And, as a general reminder, intoxicated does NOT mean alcohol. It means any substance which can affect your faculties. You can be legally intoxicated if you have taken legally prescribed drugs in their prescribed dosage. You can be intoxicated on over the counter drugs (as a DA recently mangaed to claim) or on illegal drugs.

Good points and a good reminder.


Also,
Thank You Steve... for all your time and participation here. It's not often that civilians have a chance to ask questions and share ideas with LEO such as yourself. I know I can speak for us all when I say, "we greatly appreciate it".

I have learned a lot and gained much insight from your many posts here.

Good job Sir!

tomneal wrote:CHL Holders / Bars / Alcohol

If I could wave my magic wand and change the law,
CHL holders could carry everywhere LEO's carry and in the same 'sober' conditions.

If LEO's can carry while getting drunk in a bar then CHL holders should be able to do the same.

Please file this under:
If it's good for the Goose, it is good for the Gander

I was amazed when I learned this via Code of Criminal Procedure.

I agree with you.